Code center > Suggestions
Non-Determinstic Bot DNA flow
PurpleYouko:
--- Quote ---but you are going to see it the way you see it so ...
there's really no point to this.
--- End quote ---
Of course there is a point.
I want to know what you are talking about.
I seriously have no idea what you are driving at.
I would just like to know how exactly we can have complex behaviour from simple rules. Give me an example.
Numsgil:
Here is my point of view:
Griz says Darwinbots is headed in the wrong direction. I disagree.
Griz says that Darwinbots shoudln't try to control bot behavior. I agree.
Griz says that Darwinbots is headed in the direction of controlled behavior. I disagree.
Um, there seems to be a logical inconsistancy somewhere. One of my postulates is wrong.
The most obvious thing that could be wrong is that the program is indeed controlling the bots, and I am wrong in thinking that it doesn't.
Well then, I ask for proof or some counter-example towards this end.
Or is one of my other postulates wrong?
PurpleYouko:
I dunno. I want to understand his point of view but I just don't get it. To me, if you exponentially increase the number of possible outomes, assign randomness to those outcomes then you must be exerting less direct control of that outcome
I just don't understand how it can be viewed otherwise and I wish somebody could explain it to me. :wacko:
shvarz:
I'll try to explain what I think Griz means. We actually discussed it to death before, but I guess one more time is due:
1. The biggest problem with DB is limited complexity of environments. Create more environments and even currently available DNA commands are going to combine and form complex structures. I completely agree with this.
2. DNA language has to allow such complex interactions that are impossible to program by humans. Like the non-deterministic DNA structure - it can create very complex beaviours that are not almost impossible to program, but are even almost impossible to understand by looking at the DNA. I am not sure I agree with this, as one of the most important reasons for making AL sims is to model (and therefore - understand) complex biological systems.
3. I'll just give an example: Take "venom". Why is it bad? What is the mechanism of its action? How can you develope resistance to it? It is just an arbitrary feature that was introduced to model something that people wanted bots to do. They wanted to have poisonous substances that could be used as weapons and you just added it. This is what Griz means by "controlling" bots behaviour. His (and my) approach would be to create "substances" or "metabolism" with a bunch of molecules and rules for these molecules and their interaction with bots DNA and stack. Then some of these molecules might turn out to be what we consider "poisonous" - they will mess up bot's behaviour. Then some bots may figure out how to deal with these "poisonous" substances and how to deliver them to other bots, creating what we consider to be "venom". I completely agree with this point, but I'm willing to tolerate some shortcuts. If metabolism is not possible right now, well.. let's at least have some arbitrary "venom" and "poison". I am expecting these will simply become obsolete at some point...
Numsgil:
I would like to point out at this point that I wasn't around for the creation of Venom, Poison, Waste, Shell, Slime, Ties, Shots, Body, or even nrg.
I inherited all that when I started coding. If I had been around, I would likely have wished them to be done differently, more complexly, but then everyone would do the same task differently as someone else, wouldn't they?
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