Code center > Suggestions
Non-Determinstic Bot DNA flow
PurpleYouko:
As far as the poison and venom goes, I agree. They are arbitrary and somewhat unrealistic. I, too would like them replaced by a system of chemical interactions which can develop according to a set of rules.
My problem though is how we implement the way these chemicals work. The actual interactions (creating proteins and so forth) are not too great a problem (theoretically) but the effect they they have on a bot could be.
For example how does Bot A know that substance d is good but substance x is poisonous? At some point there will still need to be arbitrary definitions of what is good and what isn't.
A way around this could be to have the substances poison a reaction rather than directly hurting the bot. That method has some merit but will still be difficult to implement. IMO this may be becoming way too complicated. We will have to hard code a huge number of chemical interactions. I can see benefits to this but also downfalls.
I prefer a simplified approach (enzymes again) to this. Don't model every metabolic pathway in minute detail. just add a simple set of rules that use maybe 64 bits of information with each bit doing its own thing. Combine them for one heck of a lot of possible effects.
Something like that anyway.
I don't get the impression that Griz was being specific about DNA commands though. I felt it was more general than that.
Zelos:
a question, if we make a simple program, that can use the all the things on a keyboard and is ordered to write those in random sequens (we use radioactive decay now, so its real random) and then tell the program ti try the program when it have used up all space on the computer. and if it worx it change things in it, else it delete it and begin from scratch, with worx I mean no errors come up, it can just come with a box that tells "hi" and work, wouldnt a million of them in time be able to evolve something very complex? of course a computer cant do that if nothing tells it to randomize
PurpleYouko:
But all you are doing is making a long and pretty useless word with a bunch of characters in it.
It can be as complex as you like but it won't have any behaviour
It will just sit there.
Without rules of interaction, it cannot interact with another such complex character string.
Ulciscor:
--- Quote ---I would just like to know how exactly we can have complex behaviour from simple rules. Give me an example.
--- End quote ---
I could well be missing the point entirely here, but emergent behaviour seems to fit the bill. As I find it so interesting I have been reading a bit about it, and it seems to fit exactly what you said [PY] about complexity emerging from a simple set of rules.
Of course, it's "easily" expressed for organisms where interactions are limited. If you think of physics as "emergent physics" where some abstract simple rules built all of the complex rules around us, that's slightly harder to simulate on a computer.
Not really sure if any of this is making sense... :blink:
If I understand [Griz] right he wants to have some set simple rules from which emerge environmental interactions and functions. Instead of making a bot accumulate waste and dying as a result of not expelling it, impose a general rule governing how substances build up, and another to govern how organisms react to an excess of waste material.
Quite possibly I'm missing the issue, or have just spouted a load of random rubbish. It makes sense in my head anyway. :pengysmiley:
PurpleYouko:
What you are saying makes sense Ulc. No problems there.
The unfortunate fact is that within a computer simulation, you simply can't just have stuff start to happen. You have to program the ability for it to happen.
In the real world we have a limited number of possible base pairs that can be joined together in almost any order.
That's great for the real world but a SIM isn't the real world is it
I would love to see emergent behaviour but how is a blob of memory cells in my PC going to learn to move across the screen unless I have already hardwired the physics that allow it to interact with the rest of the computer?
How is it going to learn to metabolize type C food unless Type C food chemistry is well defined and a whole slew of chemical and physical laws are programmed into the software?
The DBs NEED a universe in which to live and laws with which to do so. After that we leave them alone and see what they get up to.
The DNA code of real creatures may well be made up of very simple building blocks but the program (natural laws of the universe) which allow them to interact are more complex than anything we could ever hope to duplicate in DarwinBots.
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