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Do you run evo-simulation?

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PurpleYouko:
And I see your point too Greven.
The entire DNA language of DB is completely artificial.
We have been through this kind of thing before and my main problem has always been that there is no way that any bot can ever develop something that cannot be manually programmed. Therefore the physical restrictions of the bot's DNA code also restrict things that it can evolve into.
This is one of the reasons why I support the addition of as many sysvars, commands and abilitie/interactions of abilities as possible. It will never make the system 100% open ended but it might be that evolution will come up with something that we haven't thought of first.

The only way that I see to make a true evolution system would be to change the DNA language beyond all recognition. Make it exactly (or equivalent of) like real DNA with almost infinite combinations of simple building blocks.

The restrictions then depend on the program to interpret what these building blocks can become and that is where the real problem lies.
How the heck can you code something to be able to do anything?  :blink:

Let's say a bot mutates the ability to make sounds?
The program has to be able to cope with this. That means that it must already contain the code to create/modify and play .wav files.
If a bot becomes multi-cellular, the program has to be coded to deal with all the consequences of this.

Basically you have to hard wire every physical law in the universe into the program to make this possible. The concept just boggles my mind.  :wacko:

As far as DB is concerned, I think we need to work on increasing the variation of the environment and the complexity of the DNA language. DBs need more capabilities to do more stuff and unfortunately we have no option other than to hard wire it into the program.

If you know another way then speak up before my brain explodes.

shvarz:

--- Quote ---Those things Shvarz is doing (or AZPaul by the way), is guided evolution! This is 'props' to the semi-creationist
--- End quote ---

 :shoot:  :pokey:  :angry:  :burnup:  :plzdie:  :banghead:  :bash:  :cuss:  :tantrum:

You have to defend that!  How is what I am doing a guided evolution?  I take bots, drop them into environment and let them reproduce.  I don't guide them.  Hell, I would not even know how to guide them!  What are you talking about?
 :pokey:  :pokey:  :pokey:  :pokey:  :pokey:

PurpleYouko:
I think I understand what he means.

It isn't really guided evolution per se though.

It is just that your specific environment (over which you have absolute control) guides the bots toward a certain goal. That goal being the best DNA to survive within your environment.

Therefore any specific environment does tend to favor particular mutations so it is (in a very loose sense) guided toward a certain end.
Let's say you set up a high friction sim with moving veggies (like you did). It will favor bots that are able to chase down the veggies. You know it will do this and that non motile bots are likely to die. This could be construed as a kind of guiding although I wouldn't personally go that far.

The only way to get away from this is to mutate the environment also then there can be no accusations whatsoever of guiding.

shvarz:
Duh!  This is stupid!

(by the way, feel free to move it to the rant section any time you like).

So the fact that organisms adapt to the environment is "guided evolution" now?  This REALLY PISSES ME OFF!  This is the most natural thing and this is how evolution proceeds in real life!  Environment forces organisms to adapt.  Take Ice Age - it's gotten colder and colder and most warm-loving animals died out and life on Earth adapted to cold environment.  OFF COURSE life adapted to cold environment, because IT WAS GETTING COLDER every day!  Is this guided evolution?

As I said:

REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!

I decide to create an environment that is different from F1 league conditions and people start calling me creationist!

OK, I am gonna go meditate for a while

 :bigginangel:

PurpleYouko:
Sure it is how real evolution works and who is to say that isn't guided too?

I say that it is guided.... by the environment!

There is no inteligent guidence involved of course but prevailing conditions sure as hell influence which mutations survive and which don't.

It is obvious that your artificially created environments are a veiled attempt to play God with the helpless little DBs  :P

Just kidding  ;)

All evolutions is guided by prevailing conditions. Mutations aren't but the prevailing direction of the evolution has to be. That is what natural selection is all about.
You are obviously getting robots that are the most suited for their environment. That is exactly as the TOE predicts. All creatures are a direct product of their environment.

However, the environment is a complete fake as all DB environments are, so in that respect the evolution is guided. As long as we have control over the environment then it can't be any other way can it?

If God exists/ed and the ice age was deliberately created to force a new path for evolution then it would by definition be guided. Guiding requires an inteligent input.

Still a valid experiment though  :D

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