Author Topic: Any other Zerobot Sims?  (Read 10492 times)

Offline Endy

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Any other Zerobot Sims?
« on: February 13, 2009, 10:30:28 PM »
Still letting my zerobots do their thing, the problem is they seem to have plateaued in their evolution. They reproduce, they tie, they shoot and they've learned to modify their shootval based on the body of the bot they're tied to. I'd like to move them forward again though.

Injecting DNA from other bots has worked well in the past(tie ability and reproduction) so I'm hoping someone else will post a sim with novel zerobot DNA I can mix with theirs.

ps

It seems like its been forever since I last posted. Finally finished with the Navy, so things were a bit hectic  

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 06:27:53 AM »
Do you have viruses enabled?  If not, I would try the predator idea.  Throw in a few predators for a few hundred cycles to cull the herd a bit.

Offline Testlund

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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 09:16:26 AM »
I've been trying two times running a new zerobot sim with the latest version, where I've disabled vision, started with 1000 vegs and 1000 bots. Somehow I doubt the touch senses work as good as vision, in that when a bot touches another bot it should be able to do the same thing as if it saw that bot, if the dna has evolved the instructions. So far not a single tie from any bot and very slow reproduction. The bots just sit there doing nothing while the population is slowly declining.
I'm thinking about starting a new sim with the default bots just to compare.
"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorence." - Neil DeGrasse Tyson

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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 10:07:39 AM »
Vision was really central to the program in its earlier incarnations.  Without it, there's no guarantee that the simulation is balanced well enough to sustain life.  Still it would be interesting to see if anything develops, so don't let me discourage you

Offline Endy

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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 03:37:21 PM »
I've got viruses enabled, I've just never actually seen them  

What settings did you use to get them to develop?

Vision doesn't seem strictly necessary, mine have managed fine with getting info from ties, though it took them forever and a day to develop that much. I had to help them with feeder veggies until they were efficient enough on their own, though.

You can normally get some good starting DNA just by hyper mutating a single zerobot. You just set Point mutations to 1 instead of 5000.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 03:39:02 PM by Endy »

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2009, 09:52:53 AM »
It shouldn't take that much effort to get a virus going.  The few zerobot sims I've done, plus Testlund's experience with them, seem to indicate that they should just be appearing as one of the first things to develop.  It's weird if you don't see any.  Maybe costs have been changed for viruses relatively recently.

Offline Testlund

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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2009, 12:30:36 PM »
Quote from: Endy
Vision doesn't seem strictly necessary, mine have managed fine with getting info from ties, though it took them forever and a day to develop that much. I had to help them with feeder veggies until they were efficient enough on their own, though.

You can normally get some good starting DNA just by hyper mutating a single zerobot. You just set Point mutations to 1 instead of 5000.

Good to hear. I guess I'll just have to be patient then. I started with point mutations set to 32, which is quite low.
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Offline Endy

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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2009, 12:55:49 PM »
The basic stuff is easy to evolve, the mutation settings seem to limit higher numbers from entering the genome. Even with point mutations set to 1 and a range of 1-999 it takes forever. I took another look, and the bot mine got it's repro ability was a "random bot" not a strict zerobot like mine was. Still going to keep it, since it has so much time invested into it now.

Went looking and found some of the other zerobot sims, in the evolution and internet sharing sims. Going to see if I can't make a more interesting hybrid with some of their DNA.

Offline Endy

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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2009, 10:20:38 AM »
They started pulling forwards again  

They're up to 0.85 of standard costs. Might just be able to enter them in as an F1 bot soon

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2009, 10:59:01 AM »
That would be pretty cool.

Offline Moonfisher

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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 04:09:32 PM »
I'm working on a zero bot, but so far it wouldn't be able to survive in your sim, and it only rarely sends out any viruses.
So far it's at 25% F1 conditions with 50 alge. I'll post it when it get's closer to regular F1 settings, currently having problems with big titans killing half the population because waste isn't working properly and the field is so small. That and alge that get onfected with a large chunk of dna, making it shoot and produce poison and shell.
The alge can't reproduce because of the veggy repop settings, since F1 settings allow veggies to get too strong, with the high energy gain and low cost of poison and shell. But I haven't managed to do anything about viruses. I'm thinking of using a different veggy, one that keeps it's code clean from viruses and maybe kills off bots with too much waste. Just wanted to use a zero bot as veggy to make sure some virus didn't accidentaly spread handcrafted code into the zero bot. I guess if the alges virus defence is strong enough it shouldn't be a problem, but you never know...
I don't think increasing the sim size would help much since waste doesn't kill off the big non reproducing bots. And they're preventing the zbot from achieving a larger size, I see it trying, but then some titans come along and kill off any bot large enough to get hit...
And the bot needs to get larger for me to increase costs any further... been killing off the big bots manualy so far, but getting real tired of it.

Offline Endy

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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 10:09:22 PM »
Zerobot veggies serving as the main food supply is an interesting idea. I wound up turning off veggie mutations and preventing them from being infected, to try and avoid the problem of artificial code entering their dna.

You can just enable age costs to weed out the non-reproductive big bots. Just set it to change to 32000 at some age.

Evolution *should* be able to handle it by itself. Mine had a mass based firing condition for awhile. It eventually went away after the mini's were able to swarm the big bots.

Offline Endy

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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2009, 12:20:25 PM »
Victory  

They've finally made it to F1 costs!

[attachment=1173:NewStart.zip]

I was noticing last night that their population had been repeatedly cycling between 200 and 400, apparently independent of costs, so I decided to chance it and ramped costs up from 0.85 to 1. The have managed to survive overnight and I think it's safe to admit them into F1.

At some point I want to pick apart their dna and try to figure out exactly how parts of it work.  Some of it is obvious, but most is pretty esoteric.

Code: [Select]
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  1 Begins at position  1  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 cond
 dropbool
 -24 -749 -49 *0 inc
 12 0 dup *.trefbody mod false
 else
 .shoot inc

''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  1 Ends at position  16  '''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  2 Begins at position  17  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 start

''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  2 Ends at position  17  '''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  3 Begins at position  18  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 start
 7 true
 236 298 282 317 mult dropbool
 240 383 *370 angle xor
 <=
 400 rnd & add store
 *.aimright sub -38 dec
 %=
 -44 inc
 ~ 48
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  3 Ends at position  46  '''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  4 Begins at position  47  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 start
 dec
 1282 angle %=
 *-29 -- =
 9 -36
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  4 Ends at position  56  '''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  5 Begins at position  57  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 start
 =
 >=
 and
 <
 dec
 inc
 2 .sx store
 pow *.focuseye ++ sub stop
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  5 Ends at position  71  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 .robage store

''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  6 Begins at position  74  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 else
 | <
 -45 inc
 store
 * .timer store
 & >

''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  6 Ends at position  84  '''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  7 Begins at position  85  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 start
 .shoot dec
 & sqr not
 ~ or

''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  7 Ends at position  92  '''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  8 Begins at position  93  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 cond
 inc
 floor 2 -1 ^
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  8 Ends at position  98  '''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  9 Begins at position  99  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 cond

''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  9 Ends at position  99  '''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  10 Begins at position  100  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 cond
 sqr ++ -219 overbool
 start
 store
 108 181
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  10 Ends at position  108  '''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  11 Begins at position  109  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 cond
 dec
 false
 *-222 mult 1067 overbool
 *.aimleft else
 * dropbool
 7
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  11 Ends at position  120  '''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  12 Begins at position  121  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 start
 dec
 *.dn and
 << 59 * -18 16 clear mod <=
 and
 <<''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  12 Ends at position  134  '''''''''''''''''''''''
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 12:28:32 PM by Endy »

Offline Prsn828

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« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2009, 12:41:08 PM »
That is very impressive.
The fact that the DNA looks so organized is perplexing, I was kind of expecting it to be something more confusing yet still equivalent in effect to what a hand-coded bot might do.
I will be looking forward to any more progress you make.
So, what will it be? Will you submit to my will, or must I bend reality to suit my needs?
Better answer before I do BOTH!

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2009, 07:35:04 PM »
It looks organized because of the DNA deparsing code.  Everytime the code detects a cond or a start it provides some comments about a gene.  And everytime it finds a conditional or store/inc/dec, it starts a new line.  Makes even the most convoluted DNA somewhat easier to understand.

Endy, have you tried running it in F1 yet?  Can it get past the first bot yet?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 07:36:26 PM by Numsgil »