Author Topic: Any other Zerobot Sims?  (Read 10189 times)

Offline Ta-183

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Any other Zerobot Sims?
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2009, 02:28:17 PM »
Quote from: Endy
Just copy the dna from the robdna menu into a blank text file.  

Ctrl-C still works, even though it's not really obvious.
No, I mean when I load a saved sim. There's no way to do that with 499 bots. (I think it's down to 497 now. Poor wandering bastards.)

Unrelated; The 500 bot sim now shows 41 shots per cycle. I know of three of the bots that shoot, but now there's a fourth one. I just can't find the little bugger, and it's driving me mad! Now again at 2.56 million cycles, there are now five shooters. Found the new one, but number four continues to elude me.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 05:57:46 PM by Ta-183 »

Offline Endy

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« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2009, 09:03:50 PM »
That's odd, it shouldn't be doing that from a saved sim. You might want to try restarting with just the shooter strains.

Offline Ta-183

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« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2009, 04:55:39 PM »
Well, I'll have to load a save now, my brother closed the sim to play Fallout 3. Thing is, I wanted to wait until one of the bots developed reproduction, then splice all three of the genes into a bot with a long genome to leave room for new functions. So now I have to find a way to get rid of that damn error, or I lose over 3 million cycles and two days of evolution.

EDIT; Sweet, saved sims work. Though still no repro. How long does reproduction usually take to develop, in cycles? Once it appears, I want to turn costs on to weed out all the crap. Also, how long before any kind of eye function can be expected?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 05:03:00 PM by Ta-183 »

Offline Testlund

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« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2009, 05:26:55 PM »
Quote from: Ta-183
How long does reproduction usually take to develop, in cycles?

I think somewhere within 10 M cycles you would have a stable reproduction. I've had some bad luck with my own sims after several tries where the population just slowly decline. Any bot that tries to evolve a useful function dies. It wasn't like that before. I will NOT give up on using costs! It SHOULD work despite costs!  
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Offline Ta-183

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« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2009, 08:18:58 PM »
10 million cycles, huh? Lets see.... 43 hours and I'm at a hair over 4 million cycles. I like this computer. Shouldn't be too long then, especially with 488 bots. (Yes, more died from shots. I find it comical how half of the shooters are using info shots.)

EDIT; I'm going another route on my second PC. Due to an outdated CPU, standard zerobot evolution methods are unfeasible. I plan on using existing, basic zerobot genes and splicing them together with additional random genes to facilitate faster evolution. Does anyone have a first generation zerobot reproduction gene? I have movement genes and shooting genes from my own zerobots, so I need additional zerobot DNA to keep it inline with the idea of evolving a pure zerobot.

EDIT 3/22: Great, shots are up to 108 per cycle and I've lost count of the shooters. I'm loosing bots at a rate of 10 bots every million cycles. Hopefully reproduction will save the day. Then I'll be able to end the sim and splice some genes.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 11:15:13 AM by Ta-183 »

Offline Ta-183

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« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2009, 01:32:11 PM »
Success! 5.4 million cycles and the counter reads two births. I located the parent of one and obtained it's DNA. It appears to be fine, the child bot is still alive and I have seen this bot fire small numbers of shots. Can anyone decipher this?

Code: [Select]
stop
 swap 27 0 38 -20 -26 24 add 0 -3 0 -11
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  1 Begins at position  14  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 cond
 -20 0 -17
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  1 Ends at position  17  '''''''''''''''''''''''

''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  2 Begins at position  18  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 cond
 -1 -4 9 0 -23 4 9 11 -4 0 12 -7 -11 0 *.up -15 clearbool
 -4 start
 13 -4 0 8 -5 stop
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  2 Ends at position  43  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 ~ stop
 -2 -2 0 0 *.timer 20 -6 38 0 *.robage -5 -13 16 0 -7 0 ~ pow -3 0 0 *13 0 0 0 0 -18 floor 0 -15 false
 0 <
 35 -6 -29 3 0 0 -3
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  3 Begins at position  86  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 start

''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  3 Ends at position  86  '''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  4 Begins at position  87  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 start
 dist inc
 8
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  4 Ends at position  90  '''''''''''''''''''''''

''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  5 Begins at position  91  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 cond
 -15 -11 0 27 add 0 -11 -25 -22 0 0 5
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  5 Ends at position  103  '''''''''''''''''''''''

''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  6 Begins at position  104  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 cond
 | 0 0 0 15 13
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  6 Ends at position  110  '''''''''''''''''''''''

''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  7 Begins at position  111  '''''''''''''''''''''''
 cond
 -5 !=
 5 and
 3 -22 0 0 1 0 11 overbool
 !~=
 -3 7 14 -3 else
''''''''''''''''''''''''  Gene:  7 Ends at position  129  '''''''''''''''''''''''


EDIT: HOLY CRAP IT SPAWNED MORE AND ONE TIED TO A VEGGIE! I am so please with the progress, I am toning down the mutation rates and will be activating costs soon.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 01:39:14 PM by Ta-183 »

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2009, 04:33:46 PM »
I believe it boils down to:

8 -5 dist inc

Basically it stores into an arbitrary location in memory based on how far it is from (8, -5) (Assuming I'm remembering how dist works).

Offline Ta-183

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« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2009, 04:41:25 PM »
It also doesn't seem to be as much of a success as I thought. I'm still running the main sim but I'm also evolving this bot on the other computer. I haven't spliced and DNA yet because I can't determine what triggers reproduction right now. It's a bit odd, but if I shake one it might spawn two bots. Or not. It's sketchy, but with a bit more mutating it might become usable.

Offline Testlund

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« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2009, 07:30:56 PM »
What you would want to look for is behavior that exists through several generations. Otherwise it usually disappears after awhile. You need a lot of offspring to prevent good genes from getting mutated.
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2009, 08:12:35 PM »
Think of it this way: once a bot reproduces, you don't necessarily have a reproducing bot strain.  It was a single isolated success.  However this strain of bots is more likely than other strains to reproduce again in the future.  For something like this the bot has to be at just the right position to reproduce.  That's highly unlikely (but better than impossible).  But maybe it'll mutate to do 8 -5 dist rnd inc.  Adding in that rnd command makes it fuzzier, so it doesn't have to be at the exact right spot.  Such a bot would be more likely to reproduce.  Keep it up and you'll get a bot which can reproduce quite regularly.

It's just a slow, drawn out process, with teeny tiny steps.  As it should be   Welcome to the world of Darwinian selection lol

Offline Endy

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« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2009, 10:21:41 PM »
Ran a test on it and it will repeatedly reproduce if you turn Brownian motion on. Just have to make sure and ween them off it once they evolve a little bit further.

Offline Ta-183

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« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2009, 10:25:11 PM »
Thanks endy.

Offline Prsn828

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« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2009, 09:56:39 AM »
Just wanted to point out that there is no reproduction in the DNA you posted earlier.
As often seems to be the case, zerobots like to find weird ways to reproduce, and I have never seen a .repro in the DNA of a zerobot...
Any ideas on why?
So, what will it be? Will you submit to my will, or must I bend reality to suit my needs?
Better answer before I do BOTH!

Offline Ta-183

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« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2009, 12:30:27 PM »
Actually, yes. Even with my severely limited knowledge of DNA code, I can tell how they reproduce. In DNA, every command has a corresponding number. For example, .shoot is 7 if I recall correctly. I'm probably wrong, but I think I remeber .repro being 50.

Offline Testlund

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« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2009, 03:37:24 PM »
As far as I've seen in my own sims the most common command present in the genes of a reproducing bot is inc. According to the bot help file this command only increments a stored value in memory. Eventually that value will pass the reproduction value and the bot reproduces.
The reason why .repro is so rare and inc is so common as a reproduction method I think is because DB isn't totally random. It is somewhat seeded where you have a set pattern how the mutations will occur. There was a discussion here where we talked about making DB more random. I hope this can be implemented in DB3.
"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorence." - Neil DeGrasse Tyson

"God is a kid with an ant farm" - Constantine