Author Topic: Evolving niemand?  (Read 3811 times)

Offline Welwordion

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Evolving niemand?
« on: November 21, 2007, 06:29:42 AM »
Hi I have a template bot I try to evolve called niemand, all the values are currently 0 and as I did not want to
effect the inherent structure  of the template I put the pointmutations  bar to max value mutations and I put in an insanely large number of point mutations yet.

Well see for yourself below the what.bot and that with atleast 2000 mutations, the numbers did not change enough and I suddenly have lots of commands in it, I even tried to lower other mutations rates.
So any idea how I can evolve my template structure and why it did end up like that?

edit: I accidently forgot to put a start command in the front of the template  so if you downloaded it to use it correct that  I put the correct version up now
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 04:08:50 PM by Welwordion »

Offline Peter

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Evolving niemand?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2007, 03:05:13 PM »
Ok, so what has changed I am missing it or so.

Quote
Hi I have a template bot I try to evolve called niemand, all the values are currently 0 and as I did not want to effect the inherent structure of the template

The inherent structure of the template , explain maybe then I will understand the rest of the storie.

Quote
I put the pointmutations bar to max value mutations and I put in an insanely large number of point mutations yet.
Eh, you know that if you put the number in pointmutations higher you will get lesser mutations right. Mutatons per bps. Higher number means lees mutation.  A low value could effeictively break any bot in a few cycles.

Quote
Well see for yourself below the what.bot and that with atleast 2000 mutations, the numbers did not change enough and I suddenly have lots of commands in it, I even tried to lower other mutations rates.
So any idea how I can evolve my template structure and why it did end up like that?
Do you want to evolve into a bot then you will need the commands. What's the purpose.

And evolving niemand is like evolving nobody, right.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 03:06:19 PM by Peter »
Oh my god, who the hell cares.

Offline Welwordion

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Evolving niemand?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2007, 03:54:16 PM »
With inherent structure I mean the commands that are already written allow conditionless logic genes,
in principle only the numbers have to change and you could have working genes.
(thats what I thought until http://www.darwinbots.com/Forum/index.php?showtopic=2338 did not work )

I put the value to 10 or 100 per thats what I meant with high (ratio of) point mutations
and when I talk about a bar I mean the bar that regulates what kind of mutations type or value will be applied.

Additional commands destroy the logic I already built in I only need mutation of the numbers.

and right "niemand" is the german word for "nobody" its a reference to odysseus answer to the cyclops question.  

Offline Numsgil

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Evolving niemand?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2007, 05:01:06 PM »
Point mutations mutate commands as well as numbers.  To do a proper template bot, you need to disable mutations and implement your genes to read from specific memory locations that you manually change with random values every once in a while.

There was a post written up about it a while ago.  It would either be in DNA help or evo sims.

Offline Peter

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Evolving niemand?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2007, 04:27:24 AM »
Is the post you mean about
Neural networks
or
Template bot

I gues it is the second one  it has the name with it. oke now I know what a template is.
Oh my god, who the hell cares.

Offline Numsgil

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Evolving niemand?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2007, 04:54:26 AM »
Yep, that last one's the one I'm thinking about.

Offline Welwordion

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Evolving niemand?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2007, 09:21:15 AM »
Well I decided to try a different solution (if I get the Dna  to work) the plan is as follows:

I build my genes

Genes for the reproduction scheme

.....

_____________________
Genes to mutate

start
cond
 0 *0 *0
 0  0 *0 *0
 0  0 *0  
 0  0 *0 *0
 0  0 *0 *0  
stop

cond
start
sub sgn 1 sub abs sgn mult store
sub sgn 1 add sgn mult store
sgn mult store
sub sgn abs 1 sub abs mult store
sub sgn 1 sub abs sgn mult inc
stop

cond
start
 0 *0 *0
 0 *0
 0 *0 *0
 0 *0 *0
 0 *0 *0
 0 *0
 0 *0 *0
stop

cond
start
sub sgn 1 add sgn mult inc
sgn mult inc
sub sgn abs 1 sub abs mult inc
sub sgn 1 sub abs sgn mult dec
sub sgn 1 add sgn mult dec
sgn mult dec
sub sgn abs 1 sub abs mult dec
stop

.......

So I am alternating  numbers for the stack and introductions, the idea behind this is that we will have 3 types
of bots in the next generation:
1) that deleted all his genes beside the reproduction genes
2) that stores only command genes
3) that stores only number genes and by using  100 .mrepo will be able to generate mutations

number 1) will tie to itself to one number 2) bot and 1 or more number 3) bots
Now whenever  *.genes +1  (next number of genes) would be a command gene he motivates bot 2)
to generate viruses and when  *.genes +1  (next number of genes) is a number gene he motivates 3)
to produce viruses
Once he has a full genome he transforms himself into a normal bot and deletes his ties.

The concrete Scheme I currently use for that is.

Bots--------
|                     \
|                      \
sees 3)       comes to a certain age and *.nrg
|                  /
|                /    
.repro----        
|                      
|            
new bot (generation counter
 in racial memory) turns
 (and ties  itself to 3 if its there)
|
|
.repro and  (* .numties .tie) ties itself to new children
then empties its genes becomes, 1)
|
|
 based on tie number: 1 and 3 are gene bots delete their instruction if they did ot already become 3)
2 makes itself instruction bot 2)
|
|
Once the ties are solved  2) kills itself 3)mutates itself if its not already mutated racial memory


The reproduction Dna has become a little to large and complicated for my taste , exspecially the selfrole recognition system.