Author Topic: Come join the F1 megaverse!  (Read 21756 times)

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2007, 08:14:27 PM »
[attachment=646:attachment]

My population graph attached.

My sim has some pretty aggressive costs. 100 for a tie, 6 for a shot. There aren't any shots in my sim, oddly enough. Veggies are getting paid based on their body, so whatit looks like is Predator is nrg sharing with the veggies, keeping them at barely 40 or 50 nrg, while their body grows to give more nrg.

Multiply seems to die at the hand of Predator really quickly. Check out that blip in Multiply's pop numbers when some predtor were reintroduced into the sim.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 08:17:45 PM by Numsgil »

Offline EricL

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« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2007, 09:42:10 PM »
Strange.  I keep seeing Multiply's coming in from your sim Nums, coming in to all three of mine, more Multiplys than anythign else, more than exist in the entire multisim.  I wonder if we have some stuck dbo files somewhere...
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2007, 10:29:19 PM »
Maybe, but I actually had a pretty good pop of multiplys until about 4 or 5 hours ago.  How long is the queue?

Offline EricL

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« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2007, 11:11:58 PM »
Oh, okay then.  From your graph, it looked like you hadn't had Multiplys for awhile.  Last bunch I got from you was at 6:30pm PST.  

Queue is pretty much real time most of the time, at least it has been those times I've checked.  Bots maybe spend a minute or two in limbo between sims, but that's about it it seems.  I back off sending if I can't download, which is why the teleporter goes intrasim.  If you don't get 10 bots in a poll, you either drained the queue or had a silent connection hiccup.  I max out at 10 downloads per poll...

On a related topic, I watched the coolest thing happen this afternoon.  I had three sims, with three different strains of Preditor7 - one shooting all the time, one not and a third with massive multibot clusters in a high cost environment.  Seemed pretty stable with no strain able to take over the other's territroy adn Multiply not able to gain a foothold in any.   But then I introduced Preditor9 into the non-shooting one, where it managed to take down most of the preditor7's.  But then Multiply showed up and with the Pred7 population down, was able to knock out both Pred7 and Pred9 and take over the sim.  In then took over the shooting constantly one from the Pred7's there.  But then the multi-tie varient was able to spread and take back the two sims over the next hour or two and I gues take over yours as well, wiping Multiply out.  So cool to see specialization and colinization like this...
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Offline shvarz

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« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2007, 11:37:37 AM »
I'd like to get into this! I d/l the "I" version and started it up, but it's been a while since I used DBs - so I am a bit baffled by what I should do to join the F1 megaverse. I see the new shiny "IF1" button, but when I press it, it just opens a couple of windows (pop graph, internet log) and that's it.  Nothing else is happening. What do I do?

Update: OK, I went through "start new sim" and now the sim has started and it says "F1 internet mode".  But it asked me for "zero.txt" bot and since I don't have one, I just closed the window, so I think it just loaded the "bleednrg" bot.  Will the bots come through ?  I see a teleport in the sim that is set to "Internet". Does that mean it's an inbound and outbound at the same time?
Another question: Since it's an F1 mode, does that mean that ALL of the sim settings are exactly the same for everyone? Or some thing can be custom-set?

Update 2: I'm just very impatient   Yes, preditor 7 came in, as well as alga minimalis.  So, things seem to be working fine.  Still answer the question about custom settings.

Update 3: Woo-hoooo! More bots are coming in! This is great!  I think this is an awesome direction for the program. I would even suggest making this thing a default that starts automatically when new users run the prog for the first time.  It's very easy, gives instant gratification and you see that things are "happenin" - I see bots of different behavior and morphology.  This is fun!
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 11:51:19 AM by shvarz »
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Offline Peter

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« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2007, 12:10:35 PM »
So my multiply has beaten 2 of the 3 preditor7 base-sims  , and after that being beaten by a third version .

Wait, it beated the sims with the mutated alga, sweet  , so it is evolving.

If I get the graphic right my multply was first weakened by a few preditors, somehow. And then a huge invasion of preditor/(mut)alga came in, somehow in one moment in high numbers, how . And the alga being better for preditor(probaly already being strongered from the other multiplys in the other sims) quicky, very quickly beat up multiply.

Alright, now a way to defaet preditor, the sim is less stable then I first thought, I thought a bot could easily defend it's own sim. So not. It's a bit of a jammer with less diversity.


shvarz

Another question: Since it's an F1 mode, does that mean that ALL of the sim settings are exactly the same for everyone? Or some thing can be custom-set?

I gues everything can be set to to a custom, I could chance everything.  



Update 3: Woo-hoooo! More bots are coming in! This is great! I think this is an awesome direction for the program. I would even suggest making this thing a default that starts automatically when new users run the prog for the first time. It's very easy, gives instant gratification and you see that things are "happenin" - I see bots of different behavior and morphology. This is fun!

Yes, it is fun
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2007, 12:17:00 PM »
Thought you'd get a kick out of this Shvarz.  A couple comments to address your questions:

Internet Mode is a mode.  You switch a sim - any sim - into it and out of it using either the button or the menu item.  When you switch a sim into internet mode, a teleporter is created which will transfer bots to and from the other sims in internet mode.  Switching out should make the sim local again though whatever bots happened to come into the sim will you were in Internet mode now reside in the sim.

Right now, there is only one "flavor" of internet mode which has no restricitons on environment, costs, populations, etc.  It's called F1, but its a total free for all at present with no real relationship to F1 Leagues.  In the future, there will be additional Internet Modes with various restrictions including a proper F1 combat Internet mode which restricts participate sims to F1 conditions.  Some modes will standardize the environment and costs.  Others will restrict what can be teleported, such as only teleporting multibots.  I even plan for ad hoc modes which users can create themselves, supplying a sim which will be automatically downloaded and used by anyone wanting to play in that specific mode.
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2007, 12:22:52 PM »
Quote from: Peter
If I get the graphic right my multply was first weakened by a few preditors, somehow. And then a huge invasion of preditor/(mut)alga came in, somehow in one moment in high numbers, how .
There's a big advantage to being a multibot in Internet mode.  It lets you teleport with up to 50 cells and (your power source if you are a battery bot) all at once.  Its the path to transporting the largest army, complete with supplies all in one go.  This is why the cotton candy multi-bot version of Pred7 was able to take over - lots of cells and a veggy or two to power them.  Being a multibot lets you send an invasion force with up to 50 times as much nrg as sending single organisms...
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 12:24:36 PM by EricL »
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Offline Peter

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« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2007, 12:45:17 PM »
Quote
There's a big advantage to being a multibot in Internet mode. It lets you teleport with up to 50 cells and (your power source if you are a battery bot) all at once. Its the path to transporting the largest army, complete with supplies all in one go. This is why the cotton candy multi-bot version of Pred7 was able to take over - lots of cells and a veggy or two to power them. Being a multibot lets you send an invasion force with up to 50 times as much nrg as sending single organisms...

Regarding to multibots, will V2.44 allow the creation of 'real' multibots like helios(not just a blob of bots connected with a tie) like preditor is acting right now.
Edit: I am asking this becouse I couldn't create proper multibots in 2.43, maybe it is just me but all other multibots are'nt working properly(in the multibot league)


Quote
Right now, there is only one "flavor" of internet mode which has no restricitons on environment, costs, populations, etc. It's called F1, but its a total free for all at present with no real relationship to F1 Leagues. In the future, there will be additional Internet Modes with various restrictions including a proper F1 combat Internet mode which restricts participate sims to F1 conditions. Some modes will standardize the environment and costs. Others will restrict what can be teleported, such as only teleporting multibots. I even plan for ad hoc modes which users can create themselves, supplying a sim which will be automatically downloaded and used by anyone wanting to play in that specific mode.

I gues it's the best flavor of internet multiple sims, multiple conditions, multiple bots. I am not sure if there has ever has to be (atleast in this version) something like a virus, the danger of a virus is, it can kill all of the population evantualy it can backfire of it's creator and so killing anything, becouse anyone can introduce anything a deadly virus is quickly made. I gues it wouldn't be a good idea on something like this a 'semi'- evolution sim.

A combat F1 mode, I just think it's fine like it is now. If everythink are desame conditions with no mutations there will always be one victor, probably desame as in normal mode.


PS: I gues I will be quoting more often, I looks like I am typing more  .
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 12:51:46 PM by Peter »
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2007, 01:02:15 PM »
You should be able to build Helios style multibots right now.  The only reason Helios proper dosn't work correctly in current versions is slight differences in physics between the 2.4X version and the previous 2.3x version it was originally built for.  I know of no bugs in 2.43+ which would prevent the construction of hand coded multibots with deliberate geometry and I expect that Helios could be made to work as designed in current versions with only small tweaks to it's genome (though it would take some time to figure out exactly which tweaks to make).

I encourage you (or anyone else) to attempt to construct such bots or to fix Helios.  Fixes for any bugs found in this area will be given the highest priority.

Regarding multiple internet modes, the first additional mode I will likely add is one where mutatiosn are disabled and bots with mutations are prevented from teleporting.  This will be a step towards providing a mode in additiona to the free for all where only hand-coded bots are allowed.

Regarding viruses, right now, you can mark your species virus immune before you release it (Pred7 is NOT so marked) and all descendents will be virus immune.  Overriding this is one thing I will likely do in the free for all mode.  Seems like too much of a cheat.
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2007, 03:59:13 PM »
Predator and multiply seem to have an odd dichotomy.  As soon as either are in my sim, they seem to fight a war of attrition with both pops spiraling towards zero.  Sometimes predator wins, and sometimes multiply wins.  It's very interesting.  multiply does manage higher sim wide energy levels when it's in control, so by all appearences it should be the better bot.  Might have something to do with veg repop maybe.

I would point out that we might not necessarily have the raw number of computers necessary to run a whole lot of different internet modes at once.  It might be a good idea to keep just a single internet mode until the intrasim becomes big enough to be split into different camps.

Offline Peter

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« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2007, 04:02:27 PM »
There where some troubles with creating multibots, especially in the beginning when any movement can split the multibot, I will look what the problems where(could just be me  ). When I have some time left.

 
Aaaarggh, how to defeat the tie forming preditor, nothing against the preditor, but a pretty big sim like this being dominated by one specie is a bit dull. Anybody, create a bot to destroy it.  , or at least decrease the population a little.


Quote
18-9-2007 21:44:45: multiply(peter)4000.txt teleported in from Numsgil

This sound's kinda strange, I thought they where completely extinced. Or where they coming from a save or so.  


Did you say preditor wasn't virus immune, there are maybe some possebilities  , I thought you typed earlier the where virus immune.  Had it chanced.

Edit : I quote
Quote
Go for it. Anything goes in the free for all at the moment. Besides, my bots are checked virus immune....  Probably a "feature" we should override in the free for all Inet mode...

Maybe introduce a big virus.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 04:30:20 PM by Peter »
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2007, 11:27:44 AM »
Update:

Preditor7 still rules Internet Mode with more than twice the population of it's nearest rival, Lionfish - 1.1 though Lionfish has been making steady gains (it now completely owns one of my three sims).  Preditor7 keeps evolving and coming back though and is now nearly 1500 generations and 500 mutations (average) evolved.  Multiplypeter(4000) is currently the only other heterotroph with a small though consistant population below 100.  It may be better suited to Num's high cost environment than either Preditor7 or Lionfish - 1.1.

As always, additional sims are welcome to join anytime...
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Offline Peter

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« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2007, 04:39:40 PM »
Nice, now I looked there are more then 10 species. It will take some time will there just be a single dominating specie, if it will happen from out now.

This internet mode is becoming better and better.

Preditor7 is still leading
lionfish second
folowed by cardenis orbis

I see alga minimalis is lower in number then preditor7, has preditor7(tie-version) become smaller or even extinct(it needed much alga to tie too)
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Offline shvarz

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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2007, 06:17:39 PM »
Pretty much the whole Carnatis Orbis population is in my sim. They are doing OK in my sim, but I doubt they survive anywhere else. Please let me know if they are doing OK in yours.

Weird, my sims get swamped with Alga minimalis, even though I unchecked the "Transfer autotroph" option. Is this a bug, or am I missing something?
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