Author Topic: Come join the F1 megaverse!  (Read 23161 times)

Offline EricL

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« on: August 31, 2007, 07:01:17 PM »
The new internet sharing capability (version 2.43d or later) is ready for some prime time excercise.    

Preditor3 is dominating at the moment, but I'm sure there are some F1 league bots that can take him.  If you've got a bot or two that you think can compete, I encourage you to download the latest buddy drop (see this topic) switch into F1 Internet mode and see how your bots fair.

Comments and/or questions related to F1 Internet mode welcome on this thread...
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 09:03:43 PM by EricL »
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2007, 06:38:35 PM »
So, where are all you big time F1 league bot builders, eh?  Quaking in fear that you can't build a bot thats up to the internet challenge do doubt!   My little Preditor rules Internet mode and I've never even built a league bot!  I spat on your meager bot building talents!  hmmpf!   Challange me in Internet mode if you dare or I shall be forced to taunt you a second time!

Plus, I'll buy a beer for the author of the first bot to reach a population of 25000 in the F1 megasim!
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Offline Elite

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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2007, 03:58:57 PM »
I'm trying to resist the temptation to take the worst, most destructive viruses I've created and push them all through the teleporter  

I've released Durus Uredo onto the net. It evolved in a very harsh environment, so it's very good at surviving in an extreme range of costs and environments. A newly debugged Una is also out there.

What are the settings you're all using to run internet-enabled sims?

Offline EricL

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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2007, 04:47:38 PM »
Quote from: Elite
I'm trying to resist the temptation to take the worst, most destructive viruses I've created and push them all through the teleporter  
Go for it.  Anything goes in the free for all at the moment.  Besides, my bots are checked virus immune....    Probably a "feature" we should override in the free for all Inet mode...

Quote from: Elite
I've released Durus Uredo onto the net. It evolved in a very harsh environment, so it's very good at surviving in an extreme range of costs and environments. A newly debugged Una is also out there.
Una has managed to take hold with a population of 100 or so on at least one of my machines.  It seems to do well against Preditor8, but since Preditor7 mutates (Preditor8 is marked not to) it keeps evolving to work around whatever Una does...  In fact, Preditor 7 has come back from being almost dead to stand on top of the ranks right now with a total population over 2000...   Mutating may be a serious advantage in internet mode....

Quote from: Elite
What are the settings you're all using to run internet-enabled sims?
I have 5 machines each running a sim with pretty much default physcis and F1 costs with a couple hundred veggies and autocosts with targets ranging from 500-1000.  Nothing special.

Ain't this fun?
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2007, 11:47:49 PM »
Whos computer is running the nanite detonators?  The population level never seems to change and I never seem to get any nanites teleporting into any of my sims.

Offline EricL

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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2007, 02:20:19 AM »
Quote from: Numsgil
Whos computer is running the nanite detonators?  The population level never seems to change and I never seem to get any nanites teleporting into any of my sims.
Jez I think.  Bug in the current version - doesn't clean up the local population files from sims that have come and gone.  Next version will.  You can make them go away by deleting any old (or even all) .pop files in the local Transfers\F1 directory.
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Offline Peter

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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2007, 05:18:15 AM »
Has this happened to annyone else, in a few moments it chanced from a sim with my bots an a few preditors to a sim overruled by alga_minimalis. Everything was looking fine, and 5 minuts later. All my bots (at least in my sim) have extinced and alga_minimalis was left. Has this happened to someone else.

Byten by a alga.
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2007, 03:12:12 PM »
Are you running autocosts without a zero costs level?  Perhaps the preditors spiked the CostX multiplier through explosive reproduction, raising costs which then killed everything but veggies...
« Last Edit: September 15, 2007, 03:12:55 PM by EricL »
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Offline Peter

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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2007, 06:20:35 AM »
Quote
Are you running autocosts without a zero costs level? Perhaps the preditors spiked the CostX multiplier through explosive reproduction, raising costs which then killed everything but veggies...

I'am pretty sure I had a zero cost level, I gues  , I am not sure.

The preditors never have really ruled the sim, they come and go but there are always there in small numbers.I gues none of the bots really ruled outside their own sim.    



Quote
Server unreachable.  Teleporting intrasim.

And what does this mean, server overloaded or so. too much trafic or anything.


Quote
16-9-2007 14:19:55: multiply(peter).txt teleported in from Peter

So it is transferred somewhere, and in the end I get it back or so. Isn't it a bit strange to get your own bots back.


This F1 internet mode is a fun idea, having in total more bots then in your own sim, knowing they try to takeover another sim.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 08:28:22 AM by Peter »
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2007, 01:29:32 PM »
Quote from: Peter
Quote
Server unreachable.  Teleporting intrasim.

And what does this mean, server overloaded or so. too much trafic or anything.
It means what it says.  Your program had a problem contacing the server so the internet mode teleporter has truned into an intrasim teleporter for a while.  I'm pretty sure our FTP server only allows 5 simultanious authenticated sessions.  The current buddy drop holds on to a session long than it should.  Next drop should be better, but we are going to hit some scalability limtis w.r.t. number of connected sims unless we (I) make some changes to another server and switch to unauthenticated FTP.

Quote from: Peter
Quote
16-9-2007 14:19:55: multiply(peter).txt teleported in from Peter
So it is transferred somewhere, and in the end I get it back or so. Isn't it a bit strange to get your own bots back.
It's part of the paradym.  Bots get teleported to a single queue in the sky.  Sims don't know which bots came from which sims nor should they.  They just take the first N off the top of the queue.  You don't want bots to pile up on the server if you the only one running but more importantly, it provides a automatic way to adjust for different teleportation rates and in particular, for stopping flooding cheats.

Quote from: Peter
This F1 internet mode is a fun idea, having in total more bots then in your own sim, knowing they try to takeover another sim.
Indeed.  Not only is it fun and encougages competition, but I think it is also a path towards providing insight into many evo sim where we have hit roadblocks - more environmental diversity, preditor based selection favoring mutations over hand coded bots, etc.   For example, Preditor7 has killed off Preditor8.  Preditor7 mutates.  Preditor8 does not...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 01:30:57 PM by EricL »
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Offline Peter

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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2007, 02:46:40 PM »
Quote
Indeed. Not only is it fun and encougages competition, but I think it is also a path towards providing insight into many evo sim where we have hit roadblocks - more environmental diversity, preditor based selection favoring mutations over hand coded bots, etc. For example, Preditor7 has killed off Preditor8. Preditor7 mutates. Preditor8 does not...

I'am not sure about the Preditor7 killing of Preditor8, when I introduced the bot multiply, preditor's population was already something of a few houndreds, smaller then it was but when multiply was trying to conquer other sims(it population even rose higher then preditor7), it fell down to almost nothing. So maybe the extra competion from multiply brought it totally down. But you'r probably right about mutations being better on a longer timescale.

 
Fun, I gues I've conquered numsgils sim, somehow there where 10 transfers from numsgil to me, of multiply in a short timescale(a few seconds).  
And after that minute I don't see anything coming from Numsgil anytime. Huh how.



Are there any multiplys left in your sim. Are they surviving. I am wondering.


Is there a way to look at the population's of other sims. I gues in most sims the 'original' bot survives. But is there a way.


There where 6 sims (3 from EricL), so at least 4 different species. I only saw 2, mine, multiply and preditor7(well, preditor8 was there). So do you see all simulations population or only EricLs and your own or do you see the populations of all others too on the graphic.  I never have seen any other serious populations.


I have ended my own sim now, let's see if it survives without it own sim.(or would it be still surviving in Numsgils  )
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2007, 07:05:37 PM »
You conquered my sim   Then Darwinbots tried to access something with a subscript out of range (2nd time this happened) and locked up.  Good news is that loading the error.sim lets me resume with no problems.

I agree that a way to tell the populations of other sims would be nice.

Offline Peter

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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2007, 10:40:13 AM »
I'd just look how my bots where doing, and they where surviving althrogh not in very high numbers, but they where surviving.


I have opened a small sim with nothing but veggies, in no time my multiply came it and took it over, yeah my bot is still alive. A little later a mutated alga minimalis came.  I metioned before my sim being took over by a alga minimalis. This was the alga(the alga was reproducing whenever it could and going as fast as possible backwards, my bot couldn't destroy them and died becouce of nrg shortage), later preditor7 came and was surviving between the mutated version. Probably having mutated with it and being able to survive it.


This explains why I couldn't conquer EricL sim with preditor7 in it, becouce of the mutated alga.

Preditor7 wasn't conquering my sim becouse of the fact(I just checked, yeah my bot wins in a F1-rules match  ), it has a better dogfighting/reproducing ability if the alga is an not very heavily mutated alga. With the mutated version preditor7 wins.

So preditor7 just took over my sim becouse of the mutated alga took over my 'normal' alga minimalis. The chance of alga was better for preditor7 and so it took over my sim. The alga doing the work for you that's smart.
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2007, 12:18:13 PM »
Wow.  That is the coolest thing I've ever heard.  Evolved symbiosis!  I should make it clear I didn't design or intend this.  I just forgot to mark them as non-mutable when I first injected them and they have gotten away from me!  What's even more interesting is that I have three sims running Internet mode on three machines at the moment (yes, I have more computing power at home than some third world countries) with three screens on my desk and they each look quite different even though the environments (physics, costs, etc.) are essentially the same.  In one, everybody is shooting all the time (total shots > 11000).  In another, very few shots (total shots < 900) even though the populations are roughly the same (about 1100 bots, 300 veggies each).  All three sims are owned by Preditor7/Alga but I think subspecies have evolved in different directions in each isolated environment!  

What's more, I'm having a hard time building a hand coded bot that can survive for long in a sim in the Preditor7/Alga environment even when I pump it full of nrg to give it a head start.  Either they die on the vine and get killed pretty fast or they achieve a modest population of a few hundred, beat down Pred7 then Pred 7 comes back and gets them.  I think being able to mutate is a kilelr advantage in a changing environment, letting you adapt to new compititors.  So cool!
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Offline Peter

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« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2007, 02:25:17 PM »
Let's see if I can make a stronger one too, going to be hard to create a bot strong enought to beath the alga better than preditor7, some multiply mutants coming from an other sim(don't now witch one) and they where able to survive on the alga. So some have adopted to the alga.

Fun, in the F2 league multiply runs in as the fifth, losing from raticus whitch is doing the oposite of multiply, it almost never reproduces, losing from your opposite   .

Now see if I can beet the horrible alga minimalis(mutated version), I don't hope that there is in the end a alga is controling all sims.  
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