Author Topic: Simulating the Universe  (Read 2880 times)

Offline Numsgil

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Simulating the Universe
« on: April 30, 2006, 05:21:00 PM »
Assuming that the universe is run with a fixed time step (23*10^-42 units per second) and discounting any relativity effects, and assuming that there are 2.7 * 10^83 particles in the universe to calculate, and assuming these particles can be simulated with an n log n run time, I compute the power of a computer capable of simulating the universe at 10^125 FLOPS.
 
 Given that a supercomputer now days is 280.6 * 10^12 FLOPS, and using Moore's law that computing power roughly doubles every 24 months (and assuming this growth rate is constant into the foreseeable future, which I doubt it is) we will have a supercomputer 741.16 years from now capable of simulating the entire universe in real time.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2006, 05:41:06 PM by Numsgil »

Offline EricL

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2006, 11:15:48 PM »
You really worry me sometimes bud...
Many beers....

Offline Numsgil

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2006, 11:30:45 PM »
You're like the 5th person to tell me that today

Hehe

Offline Testlund

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2006, 04:39:03 AM »
Quote from: Numsgil
Assuming that the universe is run with a fixed time step (23*10^-42 units per second) and discounting any relativity effects, and assuming that there are 2.7 * 10^83 particles in the universe to calculate, and assuming these particles can be simulated with an n log n run time, I compute the power of a computer capable of simulating the universe at 10^125 FLOPS.
 
 Given that a supercomputer now days is 280.6 * 10^12 FLOPS, and using Moore's law that computing power roughly doubles every 24 months (and assuming this growth rate is constant into the foreseeable future, which I doubt it is) we will have a supercomputer 741.16 years from now capable of simulating the entire universe in real time.

Umm...You were saying, Nums? I don't follow the math here, but... I've heard there is a limit how fast you can make a computer. I've heard they are close to the limit and they need to invent new types of circuits to make the computers more powerful. Some even fear the computer market will come to a halt because of it. Hmm... In 700 years from now I expect this world to be dead anyway, seeing as how we treat it.  
"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorence." - Neil DeGrasse Tyson

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Offline Numsgil

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2006, 06:27:33 AM »
I make no claims that Moore's law is likely to hold.  It's mostly just some interesting math.

Offline Welwordion

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2006, 07:43:13 AM »
Moores law recently became more jumpy meaning have we have periods of now grow and then sudden inventions(like wit evolution  ). So lets first wait until quantum computers run , which will be a big jump until we assume were the border is (Which is currently limited trough the fact you can not make chip structures smaller than molecules, or better the limit is before that as you have to deal with quantum effects etc if you go on molecule size)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2006, 07:43:37 AM by Welwordion »

Offline Numsgil

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2006, 12:42:23 PM »
Most industry analysis still sees Moore's law as holding through the next several chip generations, but you're right, there does seem to be some fundamental design hurdles involved with miniaturization.

However, a simulation of the universe would be quite parallelizable, which I think is where the new frontier in CPUs is going to take us.

Offline Elite

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2006, 12:48:46 PM »
Hmm ... wouldn't it be interesting to run a really massive DB evosim on a supercomputer?

I don't suppose anyone has access to one  

Offline Greven

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2006, 05:07:57 PM »
Anyway a nice introduction to the The Quantum Computer. And I think he is danish...
« Last Edit: May 01, 2006, 05:11:31 PM by Greven »
10010011000001110111110100111011001101100100000110110111000011101011110010110000
011000011000001100010110010111101001110100110010111100101000001000001111001011101
001101001110011011010011100011110100111000011101100100000100110011010011100110110
010110000011100111101001110110111101011101100110000111101001101001110111111011101
01100100000111010011010001100001110111010000010001001000010100001

Offline Zelos

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2006, 03:15:23 AM »
it would rather be 550 years from now
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline Numsgil

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2006, 09:45:10 AM »
Why 550?

Offline Zelos

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2006, 02:19:35 AM »
cause it double by 1,5 years this days, not 2
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline Numsgil

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2006, 11:18:01 PM »
I've heard people say that, but all the hard evidence seems to support 24 month doubling.  Moore's initial article also said 24 months.

Offline Zelos

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2006, 10:36:53 AM »
okey, but you dont have to worry who of us will win
cause this world wont exist then
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline PurpleYouko

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Simulating the Universe
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2006, 01:28:08 PM »
The question is kind of moot anyway since any computer which is doing the modelling must also be a subset of the universe in which it exists.
If that is the case then it would be necessary for the computer to have as many memory locations as the universe has particles. Even in a computer which only requires one particle of computer memory to hold a value (somewhat impossible since how many states can a particle be in?) and not counting the parts of the circuits which are not directly involved in memory storage, the computer would have to contain at least as many particles as the universe which it is modelling.

Effectively the computer would actually be the universe. Oh wait a minute! Isn't that the way it might well work right now?

And they say computers are getting smaller  
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 01:28:48 PM by PurpleYouko »
There are 10 kinds of people in the world

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and those who don't

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