Author Topic: Mmog with the goal to survive  (Read 7342 times)

Offline Testlund

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Mmog with the goal to survive
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2006, 10:49:56 AM »
Sounds like AI Planet to me, the best world simulator imo. I'm not sure if it is a project under development. Haven't checked it out for awhile.
"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorence." - Neil DeGrasse Tyson

"God is a kid with an ant farm" - Constantine

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2006, 11:15:22 AM »
Quote from: Elite
Noctis wasn't bad for sci-fi

How about a sort of 'colony sci-fi' (ie. not too far future) coming in slower-than-light ark ships (like Orion - in fact, that's 50s-60s America level of technology) to colonise a new world

You might add in a terraforming aspect too

 I like that.  A "sci-fi" setting that uses technology reminiscant of the 50s and 60s would be really, really cool.
 ---
 I'll see if I can find AI Planet, see if it's as neat as you say

AI Planet.

Looks neat.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2006, 11:21:16 AM by Numsgil »

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2006, 03:58:19 PM »
AIPlanet is dead, and won't run on any newer computers :/

Another abandoned ALife simulator.  Pray Darwinbots doesn't end up in the same fate.

Offline Welwordion

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« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2006, 10:03:04 AM »
Just wanted to mention I found some really nice games in development.

http://www.ageofmourning.com
http://www.freeworldonline.com/

Offline maheshjr2000

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« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2006, 03:58:41 PM »
I agree with a lot of the stuff you guys are saying but I also want to add something else. Why worry about the economy at all? I mean create the world set the recipes and let the players fend for themselves. The smart ones will band together to create a permanent settlement to protect themselves from the wild. The "adventurus" ones will screw the rest of them and try to go out hunting for treasure on their own. "uh-oh theres a lvl 57 dragon or starship. Um I should have brought backup huh." But eventually as the players and their towns grow there will be many oppurtunites for soloing as they will be strong enough to take on that starship or dragon but will still require a core base just incase something goes wrong.

The main point will be that they will create their own barter system and social hierarchy. To address classes. What classes? They will only be limited to what they can carry and what they have trained with. Plus the only thing that will be found in the wilderness/open space will be raw materials so crafters will be neccessary.
NPCS? what NPCS? There arent any npcs in the real world. Players will be forced to create sub-characters if the wish to have that kind of support. The sub characters will be like children but require guarding or food support.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2006, 04:25:11 PM »
I agree, I think economies should be an emergent institution in any virtual world.  I understand why professional MMOs don't do it, though: it's a conceptual risk to gameplay.  Having to constantly barter for things could drag a game down, unless the developer is clever and/or spends time working out the mechanics as much as possible.

Which is why I think a MMO would need to hire or consult an economicist.  Both to help create basic tools for the economy to grow on (an obvious example: secure trade.  Trading would entail more risk and be less used if trading weren't secure (if the other guy just grabs your stuff and runs away.))  How the tools themselves are implemented is up to the developers, but economicists will be able to tell you what real economies need to function properly, both on a microeconomic and macroeconomic level (game companies "mint" materials in their worlds via monster spawn, etc., and hence are acting through monetary policy, which effects inflation and conversion rates with real money wether they realize it or not).

As a more advanced example: crafters (in real life, ie: factories) often use "futures" to guard themselves against price fluctuations, which helps smooth out their bottom line (making profits more predictable) especially if they can then sell through futures.

Basically, party A says they will sell or buy product B at time C at price Q, regardless of the future price of that product.  Wiki.

A little confusing and non-intuitive, but it helps smooth the economy out.  Definately not something a game developer would come up with on their own if they're not thinking about it.

I think all kinds of economic activity (from something as basic as simple currency to more advanced ideas) could be emergent if a developer were to construct a basic "contract" object.  Contracts could be automatically enforced, written in some sort of scripting language, and be impervious to unauthorized edits, but still allow authorized addendums.  If a contractee defaults (say, he promises to deliver product A to person B by time C, but doesn't), it's written into some sort of contract log (similar to credit ratings in real life) so others can check out another person's rating before entering into a contract with them.

Having all the legal obligations automatically enforced as much as possible would help reduce risk and avoid having too many player lawyers (though someone still has to write the contracts).
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 04:28:18 PM by Numsgil »

Offline abyaly

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« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2006, 06:51:21 PM »
Having financial derivatives in an MMO would heavily gear things in favor of people who have a math or finance background.
Lancre operated on the feudal system, which was to say, everyone feuded all
the time and handed on the fight to their descendants.
        -- (Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum)

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2006, 02:17:34 AM »
And that's a problem?  

Offline abyaly

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« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2006, 12:44:32 PM »
Quote from: Numsgil
And that's a problem?  
I wouldn't mind in the least. I just finished a class on options theory last semester ^^
Lancre operated on the feudal system, which was to say, everyone feuded all
the time and handed on the fight to their descendants.
        -- (Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum)

Offline maheshjr2000

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« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2006, 02:09:22 PM »
not just that but how many of those people who will focus on finance will be able to take out mammoths in game! Itll even out!

Offline abyaly

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« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2006, 11:28:26 AM »
But the guy who knows how to use  Black-Scholles and has it programmed into his calculator has an advantage in the market, so he can afford bigger guns.
So why wouldn't he be able to take out the mammoth? It's not like he's going to be worse at the game just because of finance.
Lancre operated on the feudal system, which was to say, everyone feuded all
the time and handed on the fight to their descendants.
        -- (Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum)

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2006, 09:32:40 AM »
Quote
Having financial derivatives in an MMO would heavily gear things in favor of people who have a math or finance background.
I don't think this is necessarily true.
Developing an economy and making a living with it is far more about a person making contacts with other people and hashing out deals than it is about scientific forcasting of market trends.

In ROSE, my 14 year old son has very quickly become extremely rich because he does just that. He recognizes people without "savvy" then buys their stuff (or trades with them) at a discounted price by haggling to get the best prices. Then he goes somewhere else where he knows other people want this stuff and sells it at twice the price.
I can't even come close to his trading success rate.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2006, 10:32:16 AM by PurpleYouko »
There are 10 kinds of people in the world

Those who understand binary.

and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Welwordion

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« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2006, 06:43:47 PM »
Yeah its about instinct, playing time social, competence etc. never all people start at an wqual ground.
Take me for example I often have unstable playing times and get easily bored so I am not good in maintaining ingame relationships and I am not patient enough for allways waiting and walking for the best price.

Regarding organization the objects and structures that are provided are vital to how the selfdynamic of the game will develop and even influence the friendliness of behavior.(people get easily captured in structures and behave according, remember the experiment were people were divided in guard and prisoner?)

Such objects are doors,chests, keys (even walls) , lists , contracts(trade, laws, guildstructures), titles, uniforms, emblems etc and eventually avatars, representation of those objetcs.

For example people could create an object called book, divide it into different parts and set the access rights,
then people could apply to a guild by writing their names into a certain list, some other person with more access rights copies the name into another list of full members and the guild leaders apply the enforcement of guild laws onto that list.
Also certain entities could be created to ensure the fullfillment of such rights, avatars of a law (once had something called Dschinn based democracy in mind that used such a system, were the strength of the Dschinn was based on the number of votes)

So basically system that allow segments objects to be combined in a free and dynamical way are the best for most game aspects.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 04:51:21 AM by Welwordion »

Offline maheshjr2000

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« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2006, 08:46:52 AM »
abyaly I just meant that they wouldnt focus on combat skills as much thats all and those bigger guns prolly require a higher lvl in combat.
I agree with you guys on how to set up law and how the market works in MMOs (talking bout welvordions post first then both PYs and Welvordions)