Things that piss me off in 2.4.9.

[Testlund]

1. All bots keeps dying. Veggies doesn't reproduce. Sometimes the bots get a cancer explotion. Have ran several simulations and they all end up the same. Before 20000 cycles there are only veggies on screen. Finely you got some veggies in a clump, a green-white spot on the screen.  :angry:

2. Day/night cycles doesn't work.  :huh:

3. It's sooo sloooow! :sleep:

4. Several settings still doesn't stay put or get saved in the settings file!  :banghead:

[shvarz]

Always mention the version you are running.  IMO, don't bother d/l 2.4 versions (maybe then Nums will stop releasing them).  Get 2.37.5.

1.  This is an art, as Nums explained.  The goal here is to get the settings in a pretty narrow range where you see the "predator-prey" cycles.  Ones you get that, the sim can run for ages and ages and ages.  After that, the only way it can lead to bots dying out is that you have too high mutation rates.  If you see more than 5 colors of bots on the screen, that's a good sign that they are too high.  If you don't want to have veggies in a clump, unclick the "blocked" settings, they will fly in different directions.

2.  I am running a sim right now and day/night cycles do work.  The icon changes and veggies don't get energy during the night.  Get 2.37.5.

3. Tips to make it run faster: always disable the "internal patterns" and "dying explosions".  Disable video output whenever you are not actively looking at the sim.  Reduce the number of bots on screen.  Two ways to reduce the number of veggies (and correspondingly of bots): reduce the "limit of veggy population" in options or reduce the amount of energy you give veggy.

4. Agreed.  This is very annoying.  One example is that in mutations panel the button "enable mutations" says "mutations enabled" when you start the sim, but really they are not.  You have to click "disable" and then back "enable" for mutations to start working.

[Numsgil]

1. All bots keeps dying.

Your settings aren't such that they can survive.  Not every settings combination you can do is a viable environment for every bot.

Veggies doesn't reproduce.

You're not feeding veggies enough energy.  Give them more.

Sometimes the bots get a cancer explotion.

This is quite common.  This will die off unless it's beneficial.  It's particularly beneficial to veggies if you're paying them nrg per cycle instead of nrg per kilobody point.

If you don't like it, don't encourage it.  :D

Have ran several simulations and they all end up the same. Before 20000 cycles there are only veggies on screen. Finely you got some veggies in a clump, a green-white spot on the screen.  :angry:

They'll stop clumping if you unblock them.  I know that's not a perfect solution, but as I've said before, it's a delicate problem...  I'll see about fixing it but in the mean time, to get a sim running try that.

If they're all bunched up when you first start the simulation, you need to click reset on robot controls and then click once on the control itself.  This will apply the reset to the robots' position.

If your bots are dying your settings are too tough for them.  What bot and settings are you trying to run?  Older bots especially (the ones that came with thte program) are really, really, inefficient, and you'll need to saturate them with vegs for them to survive.

2. Day/night cycles doesn't work.  :huh:

Just tested it like 4 seconds ago.  They do.  Be sure you're not setting your period to 0.

3. It's sooo sloooow! :sleep:

2.37.X is indeed faster, I had to disable a number of speed optimizations that weren't working like I'd hoped.  Just be more patient, let the sim run in the background for a few days.  If it crashes send me the error.sim report, I'll fix it, and you can load your error.sim again and start where you left off.  (Which is something no one seems to like doing for some reason, but I do, and it works well enough).

4. Several settings still doesn't stay put or get saved in the settings file!  :banghead:

Perhaps you could specify which ones?  All controls are saved to and from disk one at a time, so there's no easy way to check that all of them are being written or not.

[Numsgil]

And never mind shvarz, please do run 2.4 versions.

[Testlund]

Oh, my... I don't know what to say. First, read the damn topic head sentence! I DID mensioned it is version 2.4.9!!!

(Sigh)

I have NOT blocked mode turned on!! It is UNCHECKED!!!

MAYBE I have some settings that is not good for the simulation. As far as I can comprehend what the stuff on the settings tabs mean, I try to make settings as realistic as possible. That's why I chosed 'Kilobody point' for veggie energy, cause the other two choices seems unrealistic considered how they are explained. Like this one:

Veggie per cycle. Favors fast reproducing veggies, especially cancerous ones.

That doesn't sound like a natural behavior to me. I think about the veggies as algea. Have you heard about cancerous algea? I haven't.

Quadratically based on body. Favors massive, slow reproducing veggies or even sterile ones.

Sterile species can't exist. They die out!

Day/night cycles were set to 10000. It didn't change to night beyond 10000 cycles! I'm not lying!

I've tried simulations with both Triangulus_P and Animal_Minimalis 2.4 Remix.

What is 'Waste treshold'??? I imagine it means the amount of waste that will be alowed to exist in the simulation. Could waste be dangerous to the bots? I have that set to 100. Is that wrong?

In an earlier version I discovered that if I had the corpse mode set to 'Decay type NRG' I found out I got as much as 2000 bots on the screen. I was thinking that was because the corpses was giving off energy that faed the bots, and that's why they could become so many, because when I changed the corpse setting to 'none' they started to die out. If I set it to waste I think they died out even faster. That's why I thought waste was killing them. What whould I know???

I have run several simulations in both pond mode and nonpond mode and I allways get the same results! How can you possibly manage to run a simulation for days and even evolve bots in it?? I just don't get it!

[Old Henk]

It's really unhealthy to make such a fuzz over a computer program. Sure, it'd be nice to see great results real fast, and real good. But this is no multi-million project, it is a program made by Volunteers, you know, people who do this for a hobby, for free.

So please stop mashing about, and start helping and giving constructive criticism...


 <_<

[Numsgil]

Quadratically based on body favors slowly reproducing and even sterile bots.  Evolution obviously won't be too keen on sterile bots.

Hence, that settings is meant to create an interesting conflict that I have no idea how it will resolve, or even if it will.  The settings favor sterility, evolution does not...

Your robot placement controls are probably stuck on a single point.  To unstick them, hit the reset button and click on the robot placement box.

Corpses are going to make the simulation slower.  It's a fact.  Nothing you can do about it.  Either accept it and run it, or turn corpses off.

Try setting day/night cycles to something lower.  If it works, than obviously your claim that day/night cycles aren't working is only half true.  Making blanket statements about what doesn't work isn't terribly useful.  I need details.

Waste is bad for bots.  The level at which it becomes bad is the 'waste threshold'.  Setting it lower means bots will probably die sooner than later.  Try setting it higher, to be more lenient on bots with poor waste management skills.  400 is default I believe.

Settings I have run for many days involve first tweaking the settings.  Have you tried tweaking?  Turn off corpses, for instance.  Turn on a bit of brownian motion.  Etc.

[Numsgil]

Just checked out day/night cycles.  They are working, but the piccy doesn't change until after the first full cycle of day/night.

[Testlund]

Ok, so now I understand what waste treshold means. I thought a higher value whould been more waste in the simulation. Ok. Thanks. Better to leave that at 400 then.

The brownian motion can't be changed. It's stuck on animal and set on 10! You mean it's NOT on your computer?

[Numsgil]

Nope.  If you want, open up the advanced physics panel and modify it in there.

[Testlund]

I really wish I could change brownian motion. I really do. I think 10 is too much, but it's going to be set at 10 wether I like it or not. Breownian movement is going to stay set at Animal. If it isn't like that for you, Nums, then there isn't anything you can do about it, I guess. A dead end.

[Testlund]

I guess you were right that day/night cycles works.  :redface:

But it doesn't display right. With day/nicht cycles set to 10000 I found that it starts with night, displaying the sun icon (!)  :huh: , but the veggies are sleeping. Then after 10000 cycles it changes to day, still displaying the sun icon, and the veggies wakes up. Then when it reaches 20000 cycles the veggies goes to sleep again, but THIS time the moon icon shows! How was I supposed to know??

[Numsgil]

I guess you were right that day/night cycles works.  :redface:

But it doesn't display right. With day/nicht cycles set to 10000 I found that it starts with night, displaying the sun icon (!)  :huh: , but the veggies are sleeping. Then after 10000 cycles it changes to day, still displaying the sun icon, and the veggies wakes up. Then when it reaches 20000 cycles the veggies goes to sleep again, but THIS time the moon icon shows! How was I supposed to know??

You weren't, it's a bug, thanks for reporting it.

[Numsgil]

I really wish I could change brownian motion. I really do. I think 10 is too much, but it's going to be set at 10 wether I like it or not. Breownian movement is going to stay set at Animal. If it isn't like that for you, Nums, then there isn't anything you can do about it, I guess. A dead end.

Have you tried going into the advanced physics panel?

[Testlund]

YES!

To be specific:

On the 'Physics and Costs' tab you can change brownian movement between animal and bacteria. If I change to bacteria it will go back to Animal as soon as I click on another tab or after I've been in the 'Advanced Controls' section. On the 'Advanced controls' section (you say advanced physics but I assume you mean advanced controls. Can't find anything called advanced physics), if I change the slider for 'Brownian motion', click ok and then click on 'Advanced Controls' again the 'Brownian Motion' is back at 10. I can't keep it set to a lower value than 10!