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Author Topic: 2.46  (Read 5904 times)

Offline Griz

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2.46
« on: October 30, 2005, 09:18:20 AM »
that's right ... I'm weak!
having given up on 2.37.4 ...
I couldn't help but wonder if 2.46 might actually work.
so ...
weakened by HOPE ...
instead of paying attention to reality ...
I tried it out.

2.46 bugs
veggies do not repopulate.
number of veggies displayed at bottom of screen = whatever number is in the
"Veggies per repopulation event" box in Population Control.
I have Max Veggies set to 50 ...
Repop Threshold at 20 ...
Veggies per repopulation event = 10
Repop cooldown =1
the animals eat all the veggies ... and there is no repopulation ...
Total Vegs indicated at bottom of screen ... never changes from 10.

btw ... where has the 'bouancy' control gone?
gravity is way too high ... even after unchecking "Earth" gravity ...
and changing Y-axis gravity to 0.5.
also ... swimming factor defaults to zero.
also ... velocity is WAY too fast ...
bots are blurs on the screen.
I like the new physics but ...
need some control over the forces.

also ...
how might we modify some of the older bots to work in 2.4x?
how about some new basic bots to start with?
I'm adding new species as I go ...
so far ... they got nuts or just sit there.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2005, 09:20:59 AM by Griz »
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Offline shvarz

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2.46
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2005, 12:39:44 PM »
Moving is supposed to cost energy, if it does not - it's a bug.
Even turning is supposed to cost energy in the new version (not in the old one).
There should be drain of energy even if bot is doing nothing, this is regulated in the "costs" options, where bots are charged for simply having certain commands in their DNA.  If they are not losing energy - it's a bug.
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Offline Numsgil

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2.46
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2005, 03:06:54 PM »
OOo, some fun info to read after my trip ;)

If no nrg is leaving the system, have you checked the costs tab?  

I know, call me crazy   :rolleyes:   Simple law.  If something isn't working, look for the easiest solution first ;)  I bet 10 to 1 the costs page is all set to 0.

Now that I think of it, I can't remember if turning costs in the new version or not.  That field might do nothing...  I'll have to check on it.  All the others work and do what they should.  Tell me if a field doesn't make sense to you.

Maxvel has been upped.  I'm moving towards limiting velocity as little as possible.  Surely we can agree this is preferable...

Old bots should atually work exactly the same in 2.4.6 as they do in 2.37.X This didn't used to be the case (in 2.4.0 through 2.4.5), but it now is or should be.

If you feel I am mistaken, post the offending bot and settings and I'll play around with it to see if you're right or if you have a weird GUI value set somewhere.  (This seems to be the case more than it's not.)

The 'bang' in the physics page is how much of the robots effort is actually translated into movement.  No propulsion system in RL is perfectly efficient, so you can program some inefficiency into robots' movements.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2005, 03:07:53 PM by Numsgil »
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2005, 03:49:02 PM »
Quote
I haven't figured out how, or if, the friction controls work.
the settings don't seem to be loaded back in on a load settings ...
but the gravity, ie .. the Y-axis stuff does.
I just haven't had time to really play much ...
happy to have a sim run ong enough to start checking out the various
settings and see what, if any, effect they have.

Now we're talking different sub pages.  Costs and physics have different sections that handle different aras of the simulation.

I've had many people say that the physics page doesn't save settings.  But I was fairly certain I coded and tested that.  I'll play with it a bit and see if I can figure out why it's not.

Quote
it's pretty insane.
my thought was of a user controllable slider setting  ...
not to limit the velocity settings ...
but to insert a  variable time delay somewhere in the cycle ...
so that when the number of bots is limited they wouldn't be just rocketing around
in a blur. might be interesting to slow way down to observe some bot interactions
that you want to explore.

I had the same idea, but implementing it in VB is a bit tricky...  The C++ version should have this.  I know how to do it in C++.  A side note for all who don't know: (you may know this already, Griz, I dunno) the number of cycles/sec doesn't effect how the bots percieve time.  They experience 1 cycle the same if it takes 1/100th of a second or 5 minutes.

Probably is pretty obvious, but that's the backwards way most video games ahndle time, so I thought I'd point it out.

Quote
if I were to play with such a thing ...
where would be the best place to insert it?
I would want it to affect all bots the same ...
just increase the time between cycles.

There's a function called "main" I believe.  In their is the main "game loop" I believe.  Insert it somewhere in there.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2005, 03:49:39 PM by Numsgil »
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Offline Numsgil

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2.46
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2005, 05:01:21 PM »
Longer evolution sims you generally leave unsupervised for a couple hours and even days, and bot debugging is generally done 1 cycle at a time, so at worst the fact that fewer robots really mean huge simulation speeds has been mildly annoying.

And mildly annoying things are among the last to be fixed. ;)
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2005, 10:09:02 PM »
I'll save this thread and sim and bring it home and debug.

My own 2.4.6 crashed after 5 hours.  It was caused (I think) by poison values somehow getting really, really negative.

I'll probably add an ability to ignore all such errors as as option.  I've been thinking about it.  On the one hand fewre bugs would get caught, but on the other longer sims would hopefully be able to recover from catastrophic error.
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2005, 10:43:52 PM »
I'd strongly encourage people to only turn on 'ignore catastrophic error' or whatever I'll call it option when they are running long term sims.  Otherwise I'll never catch any bugs ;)
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Offline Testlund

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2.46
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2005, 04:56:16 AM »
I don't feel like I want to run a program with catastrophic errors in it, even if they can be ignored. I don't know. I think I'll give you a couple of days more, then I might try this one.  :rolleyes:
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2005, 11:26:28 AM »
Didn't you hear Griz?  He managed to run it for quite a while without crashes.

Woo!
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Offline Testlund

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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2005, 01:12:15 PM »
Quote
Quote
hey ... can we get that Insert Bot thing to work?
Yes, pretty please, Nums or PY, could you put everything aside and fix that. Then at least we can run the program with settings that work and enjoy evolving some bots. :pray:
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2005, 03:39:55 PM »
It's on my to do list.

Never use the thing my self, so I tend to forget that others do.
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Offline Numsgil

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2.46
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2005, 08:32:01 PM »
Quote
btw ... x axis to me is left-right ...
Y .. up/down ...
and Z-axis to me would be 'in and out' of the screen ...
so that has me a bit confused here ...
and wasn't/aren't quite sure what you mean by that.
You have it exactly right.  Z axis gravity effects only friction.  Sort of silly to do it that way I know.  Later, as I add more things, and maybe turn it into 3D, this will come to mean more.
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2005, 08:33:12 PM »
Quote
finally got an overflow on 2.4.6 ...
error2.zip attached.
Was going to go test this out...  except I see no attachement.

 :rolleyes: Griz is going Alzheimers on us ;)
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Offline Griz

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2.46
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2005, 09:29:28 PM »
Quote
Quote
finally got an overflow on 2.4.6 ...
error2.zip attached.
Was going to go test this out...  except I see no attachement.

 :rolleyes: Griz is going Alzheimers on us ;)
thought I saw it here after I posted.
ok ...
will try it again ...
I know it is attached as I am now just about  to click on the "add reply"
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Offline Griz

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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2005, 09:32:20 PM »
ok.
I see it attached to the message above.
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