Author Topic: Firecracker behavior  (Read 4147 times)

Offline Testlund

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Firecracker behavior
« on: October 23, 2005, 12:07:10 PM »
Either this is a bug or some bots develop high speed metabolism.
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Offline Griz

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2005, 12:49:20 PM »
have you tried zipping the sim and seeing if it is small enough to upload here?
if a version that has the user able to set the seed ... that would be good to know too.
I have observed this as well ... but have no idea if it is normal/intended ... or not.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2005, 12:50:32 PM by Griz »
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Offline Testlund

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2005, 01:12:42 PM »
This behavior seems to happen in all my simulations.

I don't think it's any point to send saved simulation just yet. I don't know about you but I can't load them, only save them.
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Offline Testlund

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2005, 01:25:27 PM »
Hmm. I tried to upload but the file is too big.
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Offline Griz

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2005, 02:06:51 PM »
even after zipping?
I haven't tried it yet ...
although I imagine your sims will be large ...
as you run a very large field and many bots.
maybe start the sim as new ... and immediately save it before the pop goes up.
anyway ...
have fun. ;)
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Offline Numsgil

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2005, 02:47:32 PM »
Are the "fireworks" from the bots dying or are they shooting?  I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say...

Offline Old Henk

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2005, 02:48:38 PM »
Beware! Those cells have become cancerous!  ;)

Offline Testlund

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2005, 03:01:24 PM »
Well... The mother cell copy itself into 1 or several cells wich immediately copy themselves and then they all explodes, everything happens very quickly. Could be cancerous, but not in the way real cancer cells behave. In the real world cancer cells keep on living.
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Offline Numsgil

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2005, 03:09:58 PM »
It's actually rather common to have bots evolve to always reproduce.  They usually go poff-poff-poff for a while, then exhaust themselves and die.

Except veggies, which, under the right conditions, can totally take over the whole sim when they turn cancerous.

Offline Testlund

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2005, 03:19:17 PM »
Maybe that sometimes happens in nature too, but it seems useless. I think it happens too often in this program though.

Another crazy thing is when a bot keeps producing offspring wich it immediately consumes, like it's recycling the energy. That doesn't exist in real world, right? Of course canibalism exists but not like this.

Could you make the program behave within Mother Nature's rules?
Pretty please!  :P
"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorence." - Neil DeGrasse Tyson

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Offline Numsgil

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2005, 03:33:48 PM »
Define a rule set that would fix these problems.

There isn't anything stopping a mother and child from physically eating each other.  There are some insects, etc. that will eat their young.  If a bot is stupid enough to eat its babies, who are we to say it can't?

Likewise with reproducing non stop.

If it's a bad behavior, it will die out.  If it's a good behavior, it'll stick around.

Chweck out Enitor Comesum (or is it comesum enitor...) in the beastiary.  It's a cannibot where the children have to fight their parents and siblings since their first waking moment.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2005, 03:34:11 PM by Numsgil »

Offline PurpleYouko

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2005, 04:05:11 PM »
Why not use the scripts to help prevent it.
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Offline Griz

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2005, 04:49:19 PM »
Quote
Why not use the scripts to help prevent it.
ah! scripts.
how? and what scripts can be used to do what?
some examples?

another question:
could one design a particular bot ...
put an instruction in the DNA ...
to have it die off after a certain age?
and if so ... could this be made a variable?
something that could be altered from the program, a setting or script?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2005, 04:52:25 PM by Griz »
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Offline Numsgil

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2005, 05:12:46 PM »
You can insert such a thing into the bots' DNA, but it will probably quickly evolve to break it.  Evolution is really good at breaking certain parts of the DNA, it's among the first things it "tries".

Scripts I haven't much played with to be honest, they're primarily PY's baby.

Offline Endy

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Firecracker behavior
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2005, 02:50:57 AM »
Quote
You can insert such a thing into the bots' DNA, but it will probably quickly evolve to break it. Evolution is really good at breaking certain parts of the DNA, it's among the first things it "tries".

Sure, it's only logical. For further evolution the bots have to break any restrictions.  More or less the bots are asexual so one bot's evolution has to occur at the expense of all others. One bot will break it first and then replace/destroy the others that have the restrictive genes. The same thing is commonly seen with Canni's.

I normally just use restricive or specific genes with the knowledge that evolution will come along and break them in sucessive generations. Normally something like:
Code: [Select]
'Last Gene
cond
*.robage 10000 >
start
.delgene inc
stop

works best. I've deliberatly tried restricting mutations with a dnalen restriction, and evolution still wins out. :)

They really like using the new flip mutation to do break them for some reason. I think it makes it easier, since it is more likely to affect more dna.

I don't know if we should call such behavior cancerous, technically the vegs are just playing the system. Evolution is "telling" them that the cost of attempting to reproduce is les than the penalties.

Basically the vegs are restricted by veggie population size and total veggie nrg. Since they can expand their total population size by continually reproducing it's better if they do. Increasing the total size decreases the chance of any specific vegie from being eaten. If they're being eaten this depletes total nrg and is again a good time to try and reproduce.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 03:07:04 AM by Endy »