Author Topic: lets fix it  (Read 19384 times)

Offline MrMound

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lets fix it
« on: October 20, 2005, 06:36:35 PM »
one thing thats been bugging me is that I can't run a sim for very long so my suggestion is to make a version of db that works 100%(or very nearly 100%)or the time before we add more things(and by things I mean stuff like electricity) to the program. lets just get a super reliable program before we add more fun stuff.
cooperation is working together to achive a common goal
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2005, 06:44:06 PM »
OOh, sounds good.   :boing:

The thing is, programming is hard, and bug fixing is boring.

Thus bug fixing is hard and boring.  Now if I had a team of programmers at my disposal...

Offline MrMound

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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2005, 06:48:31 PM »
I would help but I don't have a compile and I don't know how to program in vb.(I don't really know how to program in anything actually)
cooperation is working together to achive a common goal
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2005, 06:54:07 PM »
Yeah...

Another problem is once you know how to code works, your less likely to go trying something that would break it, so you're less likely to find bugs than real users.

Offline Endy

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« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2005, 09:49:46 PM »
I was kind of thinking of doing something like that, once I learn enough about coding. Just take a fairly stable version and de-bug the heck out of it. It'd be interesting to see what a super-stable version could acheive, since it could be left on forever.

Quote
Another problem is once you know how to code works, your less likely to go trying something that would break it, so you're less likely to find bugs than real users.

I don't think I'd do this. I have a knack for thinking of oddball stuff to try. :)

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2005, 09:56:52 PM »
The thing about visual basic is that it's really really really easy to pick up.  You should definately give it a look some time.

Offline MrMound

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« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2005, 10:15:16 PM »
yeah I could learn it but arn't compilers pretty expensive?
cooperation is working together to achive a common goal
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Offline Griz

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« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2005, 10:15:42 PM »
gentlemen ...
(I use the term loosely) ;) lol

my observations:
the possibilities for DarwinBots are great.

2.21 is a nice stable platform that works.
of course, it is somewhat limited and missing some useful features ...
but still ... the most usable.
2.36 is pretty good ... fairly stable ...
and the version I use the most ...
but with a few kinks and lacking on some features.
2.37 address some of these ... but is semi-stable at best ...
and has it's own problems and shortcomings ...
l[like run errors up the ying-yang]
2.4 has only increased the number of errors and instability.

my friends ...
it is my opinion that unless you first optimize one version ...
get it to actually work for everyone ... to address and FIX the bugs
that  already exist ... actually get it to be stable and predictible ...
then adding more features and alterations to everything under the sun
will only result in more bugs, more errors, and greater instability.
if you continue to increase the number of variables ...
without addressing the problems that already exist ...
I'm afraid you are going in the wrong direction.

please, please, please consider fixing what is WRONG ...
before complicating things by adding more errors/problems.

the bottom line ...
if people can't get it to run and give them consistent results ...
they are going to give up on the program.
as much as I would love to have this work ...
this is where I find myself at the present.
I'm spending my time spinning my wheels and getting nowhere.

I only wish I knew enough about vb to actually help you out
rather than just snivel and whine ...  ;)
but I don't.
so it goes.
not yet anyway.

I do have vb now ...
and will download the sources and maybe have time this winter
to play around and see if I can get into it.
is vb and the source files all I need?
or do I have to also somehow compile?
what do I need?

right now for me ...
I don't see much point in trying to run this as a serious alife simulation
the way it is going now.
anything I get to work/evolve in this environment ...
isn't going to work in the new one, as far as I can see.
that just isn't going to cut it.

sorry ...
I think it's a great project ...
but just now coordinated enough to recruit or take many folks
along with you.
perhaps you will prove me wrong ...
I hope you do.
more power to you.

I'll check back every now and then and see what direction you
have decided to take it.

anywho ...
thanks for the inspiration ...
it's good to know people are still interested in such things.

 
~griz~
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Offline MrMound

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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2005, 10:20:45 PM »
does that mean your leaving? :blink:

p.s. I agree with what you said about not being able to do much because of instability
« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 10:22:41 PM by MrMound »
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Offline Endy

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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2005, 10:26:23 PM »
He actually did mention on the wiki on heading to his cabin for the winter. (Man I wish I was retired already and I'm only 21 :lol: )

On a more serious note I've got to agree with him on at least some of that. I want to be able to use the new suff for both evo and combat but the platform isn't stable enough right now.

Since the conversion to C, will likely take some time anyways could we work a bit on both areas? De-bug the older version while getting code ported over for the new one?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 10:30:52 PM by Endy »

Offline MrMound

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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2005, 10:28:34 PM »
I don't usually read the wiki so I propaply never saw that
cooperation is working together to achive a common goal
mrmound

Offline Endy

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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2005, 10:31:42 PM »
Check out his talk area if you're curious.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2005, 10:49:33 PM »
Quote
Since the conversion to C, will likely take some time anyways could we work a bit on both areas? De-bug the older version while getting code ported over for the new one?
Definately.  Alot of the bugs in the program are things like overflows.  In C++, overflows don't get flagged as errors.  They just, well, overflow, basically modding the value.

I've already fixed about half a dozen minor, non-critical ugs during the port of what I have.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2005, 10:53:01 PM »
Oh, and this is an anoying bug too:

Dim x as long
dim y as integer
dim z as integer

y = 20000
z = 10000

x = y * 2 - z

will overflow.  That really pissed me off.  Anyway, C++ avoids silly bugs like that.  Thank goodness.

Offline Griz

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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2005, 10:55:54 PM »
Quote
He actually did mention on the wiki on heading to his cabin for the winter. (Man I wish I was retired already and I'm only 21 :lol: )

On a more serious note I've got to agree with him on at least some of that. I want to be able to use the new suff for both evo and combat but the platform isn't stable enough right now.

Since the conversion to C, will likely take some time anyways could we work a bit on both areas? De-bug the older version while getting code ported over for the new one?
Quote
He actually did mention on the wiki on heading to his cabin for the winter. (Man I wish I was retired already and I'm only 21

hehehe ;) ...
I can 'almost' remember being 21  ...
but of course that was last century. ;)

I'm not retired ... nor will I ever be able to retire ...
I've always contracted out my services so no retirement plan or anything ...
but then, I consider that I have been semi-retired for the last 32 years ...
having worked less than half of that time ...
when and where I wanted ...
taking as much as two years off at a time to just knock around ...
to go and do whatever it was I wanted to do ...
you know ... the stuff you would like to do but which doesn't pay. ;)
that's just how I'm wired up ...
just a ramblin' kind of guy who likes to see what's around the next
bend in the river or over the next hill  .... just to see it.
so ...
I have no complaints.
I always say ...
"if I'd known I was going to live this long ...
I would have taken better care of myself!"
but of course that isn't true ...
I wouldn't have. :D lol

it's all good lads ...
enjoy your life ...
I figure that's your real purpose/job anyway ...
to live well.
not speaking materialistically now ...
but of simply appreciating the life you live ...
and making the most of it.
it's a gift you know? ;)

hey ...
I'll drop by when I'm in town ...
and have access to the net.

y'all play nice, hear?

~griz~
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~griz~
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The Mooj  a friend to all humanity
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