Author Topic: A new problem for discussion  (Read 3828 times)

Offline Botsareus

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A new problem for discussion
« on: September 08, 2005, 08:35:56 PM »
I am kinda stuck on this one for now , lets see if any of you can figure it out:

[you]The Nuke Problem[/you]

Robot A evolves into Robot B that nukes the screen , all die.

The solution must include the following things:

Some kind of robot must stay alive.

The solution can not ristrict robots from using a "nuke".

The larger screen size or use of clone separate screen breathing is not an option.

What really happend:

My happy little robots are happy running arround the screen population in the 80s.
Suddenly one robot evolves a "tie to everything possible" command in one step. This robot ties up and kills all robots it sees , ristricting there movment , leaching and even feeding on them if it gets lucky, it is able to repoduce. It is able to repoduce?!- not quite , thats were the trouble starts, If it gets lucky it will reproduce witch includes a)  A son escaping its fathers evil ties B) A son forming ties to plants and sutch effectivaly enough to actualy manage to aim its shoot at them (the robot has no control over this, its done more or less at random). Then the parant may also lose its exsisting ties and end up starving himself. So evantualy this killers don't get lucky and they all die off from starvation. Beat that...


P.S.
sry, not offering cash on this one. Although might prove useful in evolving robots from scratch.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2005, 08:39:47 PM by Botsareus »

Offline Endy

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A new problem for discussion
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2005, 09:35:07 PM »
What about some sort of Animal repop feature? I've been thinking DB could use something like this for awhile. Kind of avoiding the problem rather than solving it, but presumably the bots will evolve some sort of defense mechanism if left to go at it long enough.

On something of an interesting note, this sort of happened with our own ancestors(human and otherwise) they developed a vast improvement; than proceded to kill many of the other life-forms around them. Fortunatly the enviroment was large enough that they couldn't quite get all of them and the others found some way to adapt.

I honestly have stoped running evosims with TF's, since all the bots seem to do is lose the ability.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2005, 09:29:54 AM »
The ost obvious solution is that proposed in the Dune series.  Scatter botkind into so many different directions that a single bot cannot find all other bots.

You could do this with a larger simulation size, or by increasing friction or using zero momentum.

Offline Botsareus

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A new problem for discussion
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2005, 03:05:45 PM »
Quote
What about some sort of Animal repop feature

Well , this is the best one I see too. If it does not evolve and die, go back to the andestor and try again. Although, I posted this to see some other solutions, or maybe a more "natural" virsion of this one or somthing.

Thanks Endy

Num, I spesificialy mensuoned:
Quote
The larger screen size or use of clone separate screen breathing is not an option.
Duke serios is nice and all but: You know yourself at higher screen size the arial physics change, so a robot evolving on high screen size might not be good in F1 mode (not that F1 crap again eh?)and wise versa. Thx anyway, btw "I have come to code some ties and stuff"

9/9/05 , 3:04pm
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 03:06:31 PM by Botsareus »

Offline Ulciscor

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A new problem for discussion
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2005, 10:34:52 PM »
Quote
If it does not evolve and die, go back to the andestor and try again.

I have been thinking of something like this for a while now. It would be cool to have a window that shows the evolution tree from the original bots. It could even have a 'trackback', to allow you to 'go back in time' and choose a previous 'strain'.

Sorry about the 's.  :lol:

Anyway yeah it might help [Bots] if it automatically tracked back to a previous 'strain' and restarted the sim with it.

Sorry if this sounds confusing but I'm quite tired and am probably not making any sense.  <_<
:D Ulciscor :D

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Offline Botsareus

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A new problem for discussion
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2005, 10:15:57 AM »
First of all sorry for the "andestor" , I meant "ancestor" I was day dreaming or somthing...


An evo tree will be usefull but not for backtracking robots, my "good" chart shows clearly enough that: most of the generations the robots are worse then the the few generations when they are on top (based on what your goal is). So, If you need to go back you have to go back to the lest robot on top making a detailed tree kind of uselss. Only save the robots on top (witch I am already doing , I got 6 generations already).

The tree idea is however usefull in my opinion if you want to try somthing like what I do for smexe. Infact the tree can be saved in the file structure the way it does for smexe. If you read the "plasmic007.tripod.com" > "smexe here" > "read this" , it explains how there is an effective breathing method witch usefull when a.) simulations are cut short  b.) the ai are always self distructing.

Offline Old Henk

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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2005, 02:11:36 PM »
I don't think we should work around this problem. It is one of the possible outcomes of (micro)evolution: Death. I don't agree with creating an artificial way around this. (no offence meant though)

Henk
« Last Edit: September 10, 2005, 02:12:12 PM by Henk »

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2005, 02:49:13 PM »
There already is sort of a tree in the "show mutation details".  Especially in the newer versions (it may just be 2.4, I don't remember) it tells you when the mutation took place in time, what it did, etc.

So it's really easy to see if there's just one universal species or several different strains running around, and when they split.

Offline Welwordion

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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2005, 05:13:54 PM »
hmm you know  there are many lifeforms leaving eggs within the ground , which are built to survive long stasis period that then surface when times get better.
Maybe you could put in a set of genes that let some of your robots go into a stasis
randomly hiding between algae and then at some random time they end the stasis. :wacko:  .....Just a thought  :lol:

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2005, 05:15:58 PM »
But why would you be in stasis if you're surrounded by food?

The closest thing to stasis bots do is when they spin madly in place when they've exhausted their food supply.

Offline Ulciscor

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A new problem for discussion
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2005, 05:24:11 PM »
I suppose you could add a state for when the food supply dwindles... kind of like hibernation in a way.

 I have read that anthrax lies dormant as a spore and can remain that way for long periods of time, which is one of the reasons why it is popular as a bioweapon agent.
:D Ulciscor :D

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Offline Endy

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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2005, 08:42:35 PM »
Might be a use for Num's idea of overall control genes. Have the rest of the genes activate depending on external conditions. Like say some food was seen recently.

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2005, 09:15:16 PM »
I think its the most brilliant "natural" idea I ever hurd. and it pritty mutch justifies what I am doing right now. Right now I am restarting the simulation with earlyer robots when all robots die.

thx Welwordion, I think you need more stars right about now.

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2005, 09:21:56 PM »
Quote
But why would you be in stasis if you're surrounded by food?

Going back to a larger population sample idea that you suggested, we can conclude that there got to be a "cell" somewere that maid it into seccesfull stases.

Thats probebly what will happen in larger size simulations anyway, thats why they make it.

But since I am dealing with F1 conditions, I can justify making an "artifisial" stases. And still keep the status of proving the evo theory.  :D

P.S.

Sorry for spelling (lazy, too mutch things going on)