Code center > Darwinbots3
Just a quick insight i'd love.
Numsgil:
--- Quote from: spike43884 on May 27, 2015, 05:49:20 AM ---The creating new panels is quite a good idea, it'd cover mitosis quite well (in the splitting stage)
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Yeah, my thinking is that a bot starts building panels that split it down some random axis, and when it's ready to properly split these new panels go live and the two daughter bots go on their merry way.
--- Quote ---With the small floating particles, it'd be nice to have an underlying 'task' for the program to slowly try to reach equilibrium within and outside of the bot. Then of course if the bot wants to create an inbalance, it has to spend some of its energy to perform active transport. It'd be quite nice for some ions in those particles, I'd be tempted to make a multibot which has colonies taking in ions to start electric charges.
--- End quote ---
Ionic transport is really important for cells. I'd like to have them in the sim, if they served an important purpose, but from what I can tell cells transport ions to "charge" the cell. The difference in voltage between inside the cell and outside is used to drive chemical reactions. That is, the ion pumps in a cell are like paying your electric bill: it's not useful in and of itself, but a means to an end (powering your computer so you can play Darwinbots :P). Plus they'd be somewhat expensive to simulate explicitly. But I'm open to the idea at least.
Shadowgod2:
--- Quote from: Botsareus on May 27, 2015, 06:15:52 AM ---Off topic: Spike, how do you know biology so well considering your age?
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i knew just as much or more than he does at his age. in fact they teach it in school as early as 5th grade here but most don't care and forget shortly after. only those who really pay attention and/or have a fascination towards biology will retain and build upon it. then again back then i also had 15 plants too.
hay num have you ever seen How to Grow a Planet? there's a few interesting notes you should see if you get the chance especially about chloroplast.
Numsgil:
--- Quote from: Shadowgod2 on May 28, 2015, 12:17:14 AM ---hay num have you ever seen How to Grow a Planet? there's a few interesting notes you should see if you get the chance especially about chloroplast.
--- End quote ---
I've seen it on Netflix but I haven't watched it yet. I watch a lot of nature programs generally, partly for research and partly because I'm a huge nerd haha.
spike43884:
--- Quote from: Botsareus on May 27, 2015, 06:15:52 AM ---Off topic: Spike, how do you know biology so well considering your age?
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Im just generally interested in a lot of subjects really. Plus I have aspergers.
--- Quote from: Numsgil on May 27, 2015, 12:49:26 PM ---
--- Quote from: spike43884 on May 27, 2015, 05:49:20 AM ---The creating new panels is quite a good idea, it'd cover mitosis quite well (in the splitting stage)
--- End quote ---
Yeah, my thinking is that a bot starts building panels that split it down some random axis, and when it's ready to properly split these new panels go live and the two daughter bots go on their merry way.
--- Quote ---With the small floating particles, it'd be nice to have an underlying 'task' for the program to slowly try to reach equilibrium within and outside of the bot. Then of course if the bot wants to create an inbalance, it has to spend some of its energy to perform active transport. It'd be quite nice for some ions in those particles, I'd be tempted to make a multibot which has colonies taking in ions to start electric charges.
--- End quote ---
Ionic transport is really important for cells. I'd like to have them in the sim, if they served an important purpose, but from what I can tell cells transport ions to "charge" the cell. The difference in voltage between inside the cell and outside is used to drive chemical reactions. That is, the ion pumps in a cell are like paying your electric bill: it's not useful in and of itself, but a means to an end (powering your computer so you can play Darwinbots :P). Plus they'd be somewhat expensive to simulate explicitly. But I'm open to the idea at least.
--- End quote ---
Yeah well, you'd primarily need to simulate the attraction to opposite ions first. the further the value is from 0 the more attracted to its opposite it is. Then when ions are formed, energy is used up and when ions are neutralised energy is released, that i'd imagine would be as in depth as it'd be needed. The attraction of ions would be fun to play with.
Numsgil:
--- Quote from: spike43884 on May 28, 2015, 05:02:33 AM ---Then when ions are formed, energy is used up and when ions are neutralised energy is released, that i'd imagine would be as in depth as it'd be needed. The attraction of ions would be fun to play with.
--- End quote ---
Chemistry/organic chemistry is a little more complicated than that unfortunately. Many reactions do involve ions (for instance NADP+), but that's actually NADPH being broken down to release energy. That is, a neutral molecule being broken down (I think that's considered a reducing reaction if I remember my Chemistry, which is doubtful :) ) to ions to release energy. Chemistry is rather a series of mutations of molecules from one form to another, with the difference in bond energy determining how much energy is required or released. As far as I know the amount of bond energy a molecule has is not immediately predictable just from the atoms in it (I think it's some complicated function of the various electron shells and you end up getting neck deep in quantum mechanics before long).
Now that said, a simplified chemistry model isn't impossible, but from a computational standpoint I'd want the role of particles that give off a charge to be minimal. As long as the particles in the sim are passive and only react to the fluid (or electromagnetic forces or whatever), they're O(n) to simulate. That is, double the number of particles and you double the computation time. If they also exert push or have mass or generally do anything to influence the simulation at all it starts to move towards O(n^2). There are ways around that using techniques like multipole methods, but they're really complicated :)
From a gameplay perspective, though, I think you can get a lot of the effects without doing much of the work. At its core a cell is a capacitor, and uses the voltage difference of the inside and outside of a cell to drive at least some of its reactions. We could do something like limit how fast things (fats, proteins, etc.) can by synthesized by how large the voltage difference is, which is a function of total charge and bot surface area. Building up charge could take time. Expending charge is less limited, but once its gone its gone, and has to be recharged.
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