Author Topic: Its almost the day guys  (Read 4246 times)

Offline Botsareus

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Its almost the day guys
« on: June 08, 2005, 01:35:59 PM »
I got a FirstBot evolved from scratch that kills I_FLAMMA in F1 mode.

//Now, I need the physics and the Dna code to stay the same for a couple of virsions like maybe 3 weeks, so I wont have to download the new DB and reevolve the robots each time...//

I am so happy it finaly starting to pay off.

YEAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

Here it is , DO NOT put to F1 mode , I am not done with it yet.

(Its a tie bot (that does not eat through ties <--- it will , it will))

Bot8g -->
« Last Edit: June 08, 2005, 01:38:18 PM by Botsareus »

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2005, 02:12:05 PM »
Are you using the latest version?

I ask only because the latest version should format DNA code into easier to read lines based on store, inc or dec.

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2005, 02:19:34 PM »
I know Num, I was to lazy to copy and paste it.

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2005, 02:22:40 PM »
But did any one actualy see it in action yet? Num?

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2005, 03:06:42 PM »
I'm too busy working on instabilities in my Euler method for tie force integration.

Offline Sprotiel

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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2005, 07:20:53 PM »
Quote
I'm too busy working on instabilities in my Euler method for tie force integration.
What do you need Euler method for? It seems quite complicated compared to the simplistic physics model we have in the other parts of the simulation.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2005, 07:22:35 PM »
:lol:

Euler's is what we use in the other parts of the program.

velocity = velocity + acceleration is Eulers.  It has inherant instabilty because you're measuring things in finite steps.  After n many steps you're no longer correct.

Offline PurpleYouko

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Its almost the day guys
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2005, 08:13:21 PM »
Yup. That's why you can't model a basic orbit program using this kind of math. The forces that should be acting on the moving objects between the start location and the end location are just completely ignored.  :rolleyes:
There are 10 kinds of people in the world

Those who understand binary.

and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2005, 08:18:58 PM »
I'm working on ties, and I had a bug where after about a thouand cycles any two tied bots would fly off in one direction.  I thought it was due to Euler error, but I still had it after implementing a Runge-Kutta method.

Then I figured out its because I update robot 1's position, then I update robot two's distance from robot 1 and apply forces to robot two.  That's probably the same problem I reported with ties a while back (remember the triangle bot that started flying across the screen unpredicatably?)

Hooke tie physics is now much cleaner and smoother.  Stifftie can be made to work like it should.

Offline Sprotiel

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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2005, 08:20:04 AM »
:redface: I was thinking of the Gauss method of integration...

Anyway, Euler method is good enough for molecular dynamics, so it should be good enough for DB. However, the algorithm to use is
1. Compute forces acting on all particles (including the effect of collisions)
2. Update positions and velocities.

It's not what happens in DB right now and I guess it causes many problems.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2005, 08:28:47 AM »
Geez, where were you when I neede you Sprotiel. I spent a whole day on that problem.

It's very similar to the problem PY had a while back with information transfer through ties.  It looks like we really need 3 main loops for the bots.  1st calculates all forces and information passing, 2nd updates the robots' position,, etc.  Third handles death and reproduction.

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2005, 04:25:28 PM »
What happens when "bots" posts something? Thats Right, It becomes off-topic central.

All I can say is: Yea Thanks Numsgil, PY, (nooobs) for looking on my robot, yea all your comments and qustions were great. ...



funny thing is it lost the complex feeding method on the second next generation, it turns out the simulation has enough randomness in it for worse robots to be selected, fixed it by doing somthing like Contest mode.

This robot was a true random creation it was actualy not a product of slow gradual evolution. It mutated this stuff in one generation and lost it 2 generations later. Thank god I captured it while it lasted.

And what do the online members of Db do? They start talking about how the whole movment and tie system in dn needs a new doover...   :pokey:



resently num posted a screen shot , and he says in virsion 2.4 fat robots will be the defult robots. You know why? simple they are using higher resolutions they cant see the robots , so now lets make the robots fater. Gess what: monitors and resolutions and computer speed will always inprove, So what are we going to do? Thats right: make resolutions bigger and bigger and make robots fatter and fatter...

 :help: Botsau :help:
« Last Edit: June 09, 2005, 04:27:38 PM by Botsareus »

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2005, 04:28:52 PM »
Thats why I dont post any new suggestions like I used to , no one cares,. they dont even care to look at this freaky tie bot.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2005, 04:42:20 PM »
Quote
resently num posted a screen shot , and he says in virsion 2.4 fat robots will be the defult robots. You know why? simple they are using higher resolutions they cant see the robots , so now lets make the robots fater. Gess what: monitors and resolutions and computer speed will always inprove, So what are we going to do? Thats right: make resolutions bigger and bigger and make robots fatter and fatter...
Ah geez bots, you know we can't stay on topic.

Quote
resently num posted a screen shot , and he says in virsion 2.4 fat robots will be the defult robots. You know why? simple they are using higher resolutions they cant see the robots , so now lets make the robots fater. Gess what: monitors and resolutions and computer speed will always inprove, So what are we going to do? Thats right: make resolutions bigger and bigger and make robots fatter and fatter...

In the screenshot I posted, the purple robot is the same size as robots are now.  It's just zoomed in.  It's the vegs that got tiny, because they're reproducing faster than they're building body.

This was already in there, bigger bots increased in size.  I just fixed a bug in calculating radius and made more routines use it.

I assure you, you're going to love 2.4.  It's going to be awesome.


More on topic, robots learn to tie to things from time to time.  It's not a new development, they always have.  All they have to do is store to .tie all the time.

The problem is learning to feed through that tie, or use it for anything.  The controls are just too complicated for it to learn in a finite period of time.  If we had four years to run the simulation maybe...

Feel free to keep evolving a bot in the version of DB you have.  THere aren't any rules that say you have to have the latest version.  But the next release will have realistic physics.  Alot of things are already falling in place just by consequence of the new physics.

Angular momentum, for instance, of tied bots.  A few other things too.  It's amazing what a system that's designed correctly can do.  The old physics were more or less haphazard and spagetti code.

Offline Botsareus

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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2005, 04:49:29 PM »
Ok , Now I understand. Sounds good to me Num.

But I think this robot uses the fact the physics is spagetti code to beat I_flamma... (will see what happens in the new physics, hope its still as freacky as it is now , or better atleast)