Poll

Read the post, and decide which one?

Chloroplasts - Idea 1
Chloroplasts - Idea 2
".setveg"
None of them

Author Topic: Chloroplasts  (Read 10942 times)

Offline Panda

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Chloroplasts
« on: October 14, 2010, 02:53:49 PM »
This is less of a suggestion, and more of, if you guys are okay with it, then I will program it all, as I can't wait until DB3 for the chloroplasts, and I can see that the current system is "outdated". :) Here's the ideas:

Chloroplasts - Idea 1
    Very low energy per "chloroplast" per cycle/custom energy per chloroplast
    Bot radius taken into account - larger radius means more energy
    Stop movement - fixes bot
    Stop firepower - except poison(maybe) and sperm
    Reproduction - child born with no chloroplasts
   
Chloroplasts - Idea 2
    Very low energy per "chloroplast" per cycle/custom energy per chloroplast
    Bot radius taken into account - larger radius means more energy
    Costs a lot to move and rotate - cost increases with each chloroplast
    Cost more to fire - cost increase with each chloroplast
    Reproductions splits chloroplasts like nrg and body
     
".setveg"
  A value in setveg makes the bot act as if it were designated an autotroph at startup
  Uses current Energy system - customizable nrg per cycle
  Fixes bot permenantly. Veg can no longer move
  Disables shots except sperm and poison
  Child keeps same value of ".setveg" as parent
  .setveg cannot be set by info shots.
  Once set, cannot be unset.

Also, give me your ideas. :)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 03:05:34 PM by Sammeh »

Offline Ammeh

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2010, 07:34:51 AM »
anybody?

Offline Testlund

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2010, 11:49:34 AM »
I think .setveg sounds best to me, except for bot being permanently fixed. It should be alowed to floot around.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 11:51:13 AM by Testlund »
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Offline ikke

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2010, 12:13:30 PM »
setveg in combination with energy related to body. Allow mutation on setveg.

Offline Ammeh

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2010, 04:47:07 AM »
I think .setveg sounds best to me, except for bot being permanently fixed. It should be alowed to floot around.

By float around, do you mean "not fixed, but not able to drive itself either", or that movement should be like a normal bot?

Offline Testlund

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 07:02:33 AM »
Yes, I prefer no superimposed ristrictions on veggies, except for most of the shots. They should only be allowed to use poison and waste shots.

I like to set the energy intake such that the bot can't afford to waste energy on voluntary movement, to simulate plant metabolism.

I wonder why plants never evolved legs, teeth or eyes.  :P
"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorence." - Neil DeGrasse Tyson

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Offline ikke

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 07:49:26 AM »
I like to set the energy intake such that the bot can't afford to waste energy on voluntary movement, to simulate plant metabolism.

Relating energy intake to body will do this as good as it gets. Within the current db framework veggies get energy for free. This is what gives them the advantage
I wonder why plants never evolved legs, teeth or eyes.

Because most meat eating plants are smart enough to lure their prey to them and enter their stomachs volontarily :rolleyes:
I would seriously consider plants capable of doing almost anything animals can. Virtually anything that can be considered for disabling for plants in DB has real life examples. Plants probably have just one handicap: large surface to body ratios to maximise harvesting sunlight and/or nutrients.

Offline Shasta

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2010, 12:14:45 PM »
I'm not a huge fan of changing how the veggies work, except maybe how they are given energy. Also, setveg seems a bit odd to me; a one time toggle that does the same thing as marking them a veggie. May as well just mark them a veggie.

Offline Panda

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2010, 12:26:17 PM »
However, it would allow a bot to evolve to set themselves as veggie, but I can see problems with that method, just ask Sammeh about it, that one was her idea. :L

Offline Numsgil

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2010, 02:37:05 PM »
I would:

  • Each chloroplast provides a wee bit of energy per cycle (figure out some reasonable way to jive with the current veggy settings in the options panel (maybe just replace "per body" with "per chloroplast")).
  • Each chloroplast makes a bot heavier and larger (increased volume and mass).  Maybe an order of magnitude more than body does.
  • It gets divided into daughter cells as you would expect (eg: 50/50 split -> each bot gets 50% of the chloroplasts)
  • Probably make it cost as much as body to build
  • But you get no energy back from unconstructing it (or maybe only a small fraction).

From just those two, that should (hopefully) provide most of the expected behavior.  Shooting will be weaker since they don't have much body.  Movement will be expensive since they're so massive.  And being so huge means they'll have a hard time fending off swarms of animal bots.

Or that's the theory.  It's such an emergent thing that it would be hard to figure out purely on paper.  But that's what I'd do.  If nothing else just tweak the values for mass and volume until the veggies can't not behave like veggies.  But IMO that ruleset meshes best with the current system, what I want to do with DB3, and real life.

Offline Shasta

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2010, 06:17:54 PM »
Yeah, that seems reasonable. However, they would die really quickly from body shots also, especially before they have time to build up shell. Maybe make body shots destroy chloroplasts also?

Offline Ammeh

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2010, 02:20:02 AM »
sounds good to me =] anyone not want that?

Offline Testlund

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2010, 11:26:17 AM »
Yeah, I agree with Nums. Sounds like the best idea so far. ...and body shots destroying chloroplasts just makes sense too.
"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorence." - Neil DeGrasse Tyson

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Offline Testlund

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2010, 11:32:47 AM »
While you're at it maybe you can change DB so heterotrophs can't give more than 50% of their body to offspring either. As it is now they tend to just cheat death by transferring almost all their body to their offspring, if you have ageing costs on.
"God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorence." - Neil DeGrasse Tyson

"God is a kid with an ant farm" - Constantine

Offline Numsgil

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Re: Chloroplasts
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2010, 01:45:47 PM »
While you're at it maybe you can change DB so heterotrophs can't give more than 50% of their body to offspring either. As it is now they tend to just cheat death by transferring almost all their body to their offspring, if you have ageing costs on.

I think that was the idea of aging costs, actually.  But to get more of what I think you're after, maybe we can revamp the idea of "waste" a bit, or invent a separate substance with a similar idea:

Make it massless and volumeless, and have it accumulate at a constant rate every cycle for every bot.  (Or maybe proportional to the body of a bot). When a bot divides, it also divides the "waste".  Then have a cost per "waste" that the user can set.  You basically get the icy hand of death constantly chasing a strain as it divides.  There would still be ways to cheat this system, but they're less straightforward than simply reproducing.