Author Topic: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim  (Read 3236 times)

Offline Wake

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Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« on: July 31, 2010, 12:41:32 AM »
I'm not sure how much everyone still plays with ex nihilo simulations.  I'm new (being playing around for a couple weeks now) and still trying to get a replicator going (I think I may have had a couple clients crash from them, but I haven't seen any in the live), an it seems the prevailing issue is scale.  I'm currently running four chain-linked sims (gotta love quad-core processors) that started with 500 500bp bots, but that's pretty much the limit of what I can do personally.  Then it kind of it me that what if we all set up a separate zero-bot only IM sim.  I hadn't seen this idea pop up on the forums.  Here are my basic thoughts on the matter.

  • All bots must be zero-bots (or their purely random counterparts) or have evolved from such bots with no gene manipulation from outside factors (i.e.  no cleanup/modification of "winners" between runs, no viral replicator feeders, no feeder veggies).
  • There would be no limits or restrictions on simulation settings such as size, waste, corpses, physics, costs, mutation rates, etc.  If we want to encourage biodiversity, we are likely going to need some variations in environments.
  • Autotrophes could be allowed with the understanding that some simulations may have stronger restrictions on their reproduction than others.

Starting a new sim with a seed population may seem to break the determinism a bit, but what's to say that it wasn't a separate pool that just recently became joined to the rest.  The world is huge, there are always new challengers and new challenges.  Also, a more evolved specimen that may be well adapted to one environment is likely to not be so great at one with different physics.

Autotrophes seem to be a bit of a crutch in an ex nihilo sim, seeing as they get energy without having to know how to feed, but adding energy to an potentially ever growing environment would likely be necessary.  Simply repopulating "dead sims" would be one way, and I guess using autotrophic bots would not really be much different.

Most of all, this would allow us to clock more cycles per base-pair on a whole, which means "better" (in terms of dataset size) evolution on a whole.

What are the rest of your thoughts on such a project?

Offline theblaze

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2011, 04:41:12 AM »
we need this

Offline Numsgil

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2011, 12:38:46 PM »
It's tricky to keep out griefers who might pollute the sim with hand coded bots.  Once the ubersim is contaminated it's actually pretty hard to completely exterminate unwanted bots.

Offline theblaze

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2011, 01:19:26 PM »
Ok

Offline ashton1993

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2011, 03:19:08 PM »
It's tricky to keep out griefers who might pollute the sim with hand coded bots.  Once the ubersim is contaminated it's actually pretty hard to completely exterminate unwanted bots.

How about an extra few memory slots which can only be changed in the console by certain people, like you and sammeh, this could then identify the robot as a multibot zerobot f3 bot or whatever and people would only accept bots into there sim which they wanted

Offline Numsgil

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2011, 04:47:07 PM »
Right now IM works just by dumping files onto FTP, so the primary weak point for contamination is actually the server.

If we fixed that so it used some sort of authentication (like your forum username/password) along with some basic checks in Darwinbots for a bot (probably some sort of serial number which identifies its lineage) we could probably get something going.  It would still be possible to contaminate, but someone would have to explicitly register a forum user name, modify the program, run an evo sim, and swap in their hand coded bot.  Which sounds like a lot of work ;)

Of course, it'd still just be a matter of time until someone griefed it just for the hell of it.  But it would probably last for months or years.

Offline ikke

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2011, 02:18:37 AM »
Right now IM works just by dumping files onto FTP, so the primary weak point for contamination is actually the server.
...
Of course, it'd still just be a matter of time until someone griefed it just for the hell of it.  But it would probably last for months or years.
Don't kid yourself. Contamination will be no exception if there are no barriers. Suppose I'm a newbie exploring DB. I start a sim, click left & right to see what happens, press link to IM and presto a minimalis released.
If you attach userID of the owner of the sim to all bots created in that sim and their descendants you'd have an option to track (which is fun in its own right) and kill (as admin)

Offline Panda

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2011, 06:50:45 AM »
Inside the sims we could have some form of limitations for the bots. Like "F2" which prevents the bots from using anything banned in F2. Or just "No poison". Okay, it could disadvantage the bots from other sims that are F1 or something, but IM isn't about winning really, it's more about seeing interesting behavior and having more processing power to run sims. It could return bots that try to use anything that isn't allowed in the sim.

We could also do this so there are 3 different sims online, F1, F2, F3, and the clients, to connect to each one only allows each type when connected to it.

Offline ikke

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2011, 01:00:04 PM »
I once proposed to have an on / off switch for each command, allowing full controll of a sim.

Offline Panda

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2011, 01:04:11 PM »
That would be possible, it would just require a lot of work!

Offline ikke

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2011, 04:00:19 PM »
That would be possible, it would just require a lot of work!
Not at all, some memory, a form and a check.
Building the sim is user preference, once made (F3 etc) a template.

Offline Panda

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2011, 04:40:10 PM »
Have you ever looked at the code!? It would take hours just to find everything. :p

Offline ikke

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2011, 12:48:04 AM »
It was discussed for DB3

Offline theblaze

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2011, 01:17:03 AM »
How about building in commands in darwin bots so u can click on something like create zerobot or create randombot or something like that ane put code in which darwinbots will recognize as a zerobot like 5 zeros in a specific line , or randombot like 5326 at a specific line

Offline Panda

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Re: Internet Mode Ex Nihilo Sim
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2011, 04:29:47 AM »
It was discussed for DB3

Oh, that sounds much more possible, but I don't know about it's practicality.