Introduction + question

[EagleV]

Hello

I'm new to the forums and to Darwinbots in general, but I like it. I've always been interested in both programming and genetics, so this program is awesome. Thanks, everyone who made it possible

Also, a little question.

I would like to see if some bot has mutated. I checked the graphs, and there was an average mutation > 0 so I guess some bot, somewhere, has mutated. However, my 'most succesfull bot' is just a lucky bastard without any mutations. How can I find mutated bots?

Thanks, and have fun genetically engineering inferior lifeforms (muhaha)

[Moonfisher]

Hello, and welcomme
I should mention that most people run version 2.43.1L of Darwinbots as it's currently the most stable.

As for mutations... usualy I have problems finding something that isn't mutated when starting new sims.
So I guess it depends on a lot of things :

- The DNA length of the bot you're using, mutation rates depend on the length of the DNA. Very short DNA will rarely mutate.
- Global mutation rates. Theres a slider from 1/16 to 16X mutation rates. You could also try giving that a litle extra.
- Individual mutation rates. You can set the mutation rates for each individual mutation type for a species, or even change them on a cell in the sim.
- The strength of the bot. If your bot is very well balanced and tweeked to make the most out of the sim settings you have, then mutations will more often weaken it. So starting with a weaker bot may help aswell.
- The amount of bots. Don't run more bots than your computer can support or things will slow down to a halt. You can balance population through the alge supply.

I would guess atleast one of these things plays into having few mutations.
It's not worth it trying to find some mutated cell somewhere, if it was a usefull mutation then it would likely take over the sim.
Also the fact that you can't even find one mutated cell sugests that mutation rates are too low.


Other than that if you like programming there's also some league where you can enter handauthored (or evolved) bots, to compete a top position.
The leagues are in the forum with a guide on running them.

Also the starting gate contains a lot of interesting bots to look at and run (Get en idea of what is possible and what came come from DB evo sims and such)
This is the best zero bot (A bot starting with only 0's in it's code) I've been able to produce so far :

[div class=\'codetop\']CODE[div class=\'codemain\' style=\'height:200px;white-space:pre;overflow:auto\']326 stop
store
store

'''''''''''''''''''''''' Gene: 1 Begins at position 5 '''''''''''''''''''''''
start
sqr .tie dec
59 << *.robage 192
'''''''''''''''''''''''' Gene: 1 Ends at position 12 '''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''''''''''''''''' Gene: 2 Begins at position 13 '''''''''''''''''''''''
start
overbool
.shoot dec
ceil >> rnd << << ++ store
store
stop
'''''''''''''''''''''''' Gene: 2 Ends at position 25 '''''''''''''''''''''''

This thing will rarely mutate by now since it's managed to compress it's code to almost nothing. It acts like a fungus and slowly eats whatever gets caught in it, it's not very strong or anything, but interesting to see how much behavior it gets out of this. It basicaly does a lot of random things but has managed to adjust the odds in order to end up doing something right fairly often.

Other than that the league bots are ofcourse interesting to look at, you can find all the top bots attached in the league topic. I would recommend starting with the F3 league to get an idea of how things work, then move on to F2 or F1 if you want a challenge

[EagleV]

Thanks for the quick answer

I don't think I currently come even close to league programming, but as soon as I get some experience, I will certainly try that
I started with 5+10 bots, but the population soon became 200+. Is that an indicator that starting conditions are too easy? I was using the Basic bot from the wiki (Animal_Something) with only a minor tweak to let it search for food once there's nothing in sight. Is that code too short? I guess it certainly isn't powerful enough to make most mutations bad.

[Moonfisher]

200 bots sounds good as long as your computer isn't too old it shouuld run rather well.
You can disable graphics to speed things up if you like.
I'd probably recommend just increasing global mutation rates and see what happens, and ofcourse remember than you don't want things to mutate TOO often or they'll just break down.
Other than that a stronger alge could create a purpose for evolving other than just cramming more bots into the same space, but you shouyld definately get mutations and evolution with just plain alga minimalis aswell.

You can also do stuff like increasin sim size without adding more alge, making it harder to find food, or change the desity of watter... these are mostly sugestion if you want to see something happen fast, since a change in the usual environment will create a big demand for evolution.

[EagleV]

Again, thanks

Another question, which will probably have an obvious and stupid answer.

Is there any way to re-load the DNA of a bot you are modding without closing/opening the program every time? I tried deleting and adding the bot, no result.

[Moonfisher]

Well you can restart the sim and the new inserted bots should have the new code in them. You don't even need to add the bot again.
Just press "Start New" instead of change while under settings and the sim will restart with the new DNA.

[EagleV]

Thanks again, Moonfisher.

Questions are over, for now.

I have a feeling I'll lurk on this forum, especially since I like innovative and fun software that challenges you to develop new ways of thinking, and games that have a good and maintained fanbase.

Greets and good luck to everyone here