Author Topic: caterpillar simulation  (Read 5479 times)

Offline jknilinux

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caterpillar simulation
« on: April 22, 2009, 04:36:17 PM »
Hey guys,

I'm trying to get a working evolution simulation of peter's caterpillars, but I'm kind of a newb to long-term evosims. Practically every sim I make seems to die out in like 10 kilocycles. So, I was wondering if someone might be able to help me with some suggestions and, if possible, a working evosim with caterpillars. I've looked at all the other threads on the topic, but nothing really seems to work...

Thanks!

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 08:22:35 PM »
Can you tell why they die?

If they run out of food, consider keeping the veggy population higher (or costs lower).  If there's food but they don't seem to be able to reach it, you need to tweak the genome to add some chance of exploration.  If one goes on a genocidal rampage and kills everyone else, you need to make the field bigger and/or add some shapes (assuming caterpillar is shape aware).

Offline jknilinux

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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2009, 01:17:09 PM »
Well, they seem to kill themselves in a lot of creative ways...

Some caterpillars seem to lose their ability to contract, so they just keep lengthening, and eventually become immobile bars.
Others seem to have reproduction problems, and keep dividing until they become a huge ugly ball of fungus. Then they sit there in a unicellular cluster and do nothing...

Still others seem to break their tie-forming code, and form a pretty cool-looking "spider web", snatching any caterpillars that pass by and getting them tangled in it's mess. These guys not only kill themselves, but kill any caterpillars in tying range as well... which is annoying...

I guess these signs mean that the genome is too fragile? How do I make a genome more durable? I can't just make it have five copies of every gene, can I?

TY!

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2009, 02:01:51 PM »
You could try 5 copies of every gene.  But mostly I'd suggest lowering the mutation rates by quite a bit.  The default rates were really just picked randomly, and are in now was a "suggestion" as to what a proper rate actually looks like.

Offline jknilinux

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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2009, 03:08:49 PM »
Woohoo, got up to 27 kCycles before they all died!

I had to make a caterpillar with 5 copies of every gene, turn mutation rate down to 1/32x, and they still ultimately died because their movement genes broke...

Perhaps caterpillar is just innately too fragile? Kinda like trying to evolve Vermis P.?

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2009, 03:19:29 PM »
Just keep lowering the rates.  You can edit the rates of the species individually to very low numbers.  Try 1 in 50000.

Offline jknilinux

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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2009, 03:24:16 PM »
OK, I think I got it working...

I disabled point and major deletion. Everything left is 1 in 50000, except copy error and minor deletion, which are 1 in 5000. Still using the hardened caterpillar and 1/32x mutations.

I think what was really killing them was the point mutations... they reproduce slowly, so they'd get over 10 mutations before they had any kids... maybe that was it...

I'll keep you posted.

Offline jknilinux

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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2009, 04:55:31 PM »
Ok, I have good news and bad news... I just passed the 50 kCycle mark, so now it looks like they've overcome their suicidal tendencies, but the bots are averaging just 5 mutations each...  Is it supposed to be this slow?

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2009, 05:29:36 PM »
Yes.

For most bots I try to aim for no more than 1 mutation per 2 generations.  But a larger genome can usually withstand some higher rates.

Offline jknilinux

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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2009, 09:04:47 PM »
OK! Thanks numsgil! This is the first time I've reached over one megacycle with anything... and the caterpillars are still going strong!

In case anyone's interested, they're still forming coherent MB's and no cannibalism (yet XD).

Offline Prsn828

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caterpillar simulation
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2009, 11:06:24 PM »
Hmm, yes, I am never so patient.
I do think point mutations serve an important role before a bot is able to reproduce, but other than that, it is pointless, just a wrench in the plans of good evolution.
So, what will it be? Will you submit to my will, or must I bend reality to suit my needs?
Better answer before I do BOTH!

Offline jknilinux

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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2009, 01:31:12 AM »
Update:

Passed 2 mC, still looking good...  And absolutely NO CANNIBALISM! Isn't conspec usually one of the first things to go? What's going on?

Average mutations = 60. Movement is still very good, even though it requires teamwork. Size 3 arena, 5-10 algae, 20-80 bots (10-40 organisms). 0% movement efficiency.

So anyway, are these results unusual? Is the population going to be prone to genetic drift with these levels? KTHXBAI

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2009, 02:54:34 AM »
How many generations?

Offline jknilinux

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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2009, 03:53:21 AM »
Sorry, dumb question... How do I check that? I didn't turn on any graphing for utmost speed.

Right now, 27000 born, 2.9 mC, still no cannibalism, though they are now tying with everything in sight again, forming big ugly globs...

Average mutations = 80

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2009, 11:38:28 AM »
There should be a counter when you look at a typical bot's info.