Bots and Simulations > Bot Tavern
Overall league thoughts
jknilinux:
Peter-
The reason I asked if it sounded good was my PC broke at the time. Anyway, it's fixed now, so I'll check the settings on my own soon.
Numsgil-
I may have misunderstood your post, but I was suggesting putting shapes in the new interesting behavior league, not F2.
Abyaly-
I see your point... If a rule is not necessary it starts to become an obstacle...
OK, you convinced me.
Rules 0.7 (almost, but not yet, 1.0!):
- No memory shots.
- No venom.
- No viruses.
- Very high (10x?) Poison costs
- Very high (10x?) shell costs
- Size 12 field.
- Non-toroidal
- Alga minimalis, Low veg repop threshold (0?), Veg repop 1, long repop delay (5x?), high veggy population cap (100?), low energy cap (???), fed 8 nrg per turn, fed per kilobody, day/night cycles enabled. (We'll want the veggy population to remain around 20-25 constantly.)
- Thick fluid resistance.
- F1 costs, no/low code execution costs (0.5x?), and low (0.1x?) age costs.*
- Only negative tieloc values allowed.
*I see these rules as removing obstacles to complex behavior, not forcing contrived behavior... Feel free to disagree, though.
So, abyaly, did I miss anything?
Peter:
Please state the reasons for every rule.
Why 10x Poison costs. Any reason? Just skip the 10 if it lacks a reason.
--- Quote ---- Alga minimalis, Low veg repop threshold (0?), Veg repop 1, long repop delay (5x?), high veggy population cap (100?), low energy cap (???), fed 8 nrg per turn, fed per kilobody, day/night cycles enabled. (We'll want the veggy population to remain around 20-25 constantly.)
--- End quote ---
Why a treshold of 0?
Why repop of 1?(and the use when the treshold is 0?)
Why a delay of 5x?
Why 100 as a pop-cap?
Why around 20-25. It sounds awfully low.
What do the multiplications come from? (F1-conditions?)
bacillus:
Poison can give a significant advantage if every bit of nrg counts. Creating 10 poison for 1 nrg (not sure about this bit, but will do for now) can easily stop a bot from feeding for 10 cycles, in which time food could be gone, either way, nrg loss will be greater than 1. Multiplying the cost by ten will even out this disadvantage, although not completely, and reduce the effectiveness of poison.
jknilinux:
--- Quote from: Peter ---Please state the reasons for every rule.
Why 10x Poison costs. Any reason? Just skip the 10 if it lacks a reason.
--- Quote ---- Alga minimalis, Low veg repop threshold (0?), Veg repop 1, long repop delay (5x?), high veggy population cap (100?), low energy cap (???), fed 8 nrg per turn, fed per kilobody, day/night cycles enabled. (We'll want the veggy population to remain around 20-25 constantly.)
--- End quote ---
Why a treshold of 0?
Why repop of 1?(and the use when the treshold is 0?)
Why a delay of 5x?
Why 100 as a pop-cap?
Why around 20-25. It sounds awfully low.
What do the multiplications come from? (F1-conditions?)
--- End quote ---
Threshold of 0- If a bot drives the algae population to 0 and kills itself, it's not too interesting, is it?
repop of 1*- I quote abyaly:
"-Veggy repop reduction is there to prevent the "sit and wait" strategy that becomes viable when large numbers of veggies are always appearing."
Delay of 5x*- If they can't keep a 5x delay without going on a murderous rampage and killing everything, then they aren't exactly intelligent-behavior bots, are they?
100 as the pop cap- if the bots can hoard their veggies and garden them, so much the better. However, the veggy population should still be reasonably low, even if none are killed.
population@20-25- Moonfisher evolved IB soccerbots based on neural networks that maintain a population of up to 3000 in a size 13 field with only 25 veggies. So, if evolved NNbots can survive in a size 13 sim with 25 bots, hand-made bots should be able to survive in a size-12 sim with 25 veggies as well.
Yes, the multiplications come from F1.
*- The starred explanations are indeed pointless if we adopt a threshold of 0. They're only there incase we don't.
Moonfisher-
What do you think of removing these rules? Are there any you think we should keep?
Abyaly-
You said:
"We already have a way of dealing with random chance. It's a pretty good one. We don't need another."
a bit earlier. What was that? And how does moving algae force contrived complexity, exactly?
Peter:
--- Quote from: bacillus ---Poison can give a significant advantage if every bit of nrg counts. Creating 10 poison for 1 nrg (not sure about this bit, but will do for now) can easily stop a bot from feeding for 10 cycles, in which time food could be gone, either way, nrg loss will be greater than 1. Multiplying the cost by ten will even out this disadvantage, although not completely, and reduce the effectiveness of poison.
--- End quote ---
It is 1 poison for 2 nrg...
Why it should be 10x poisoncosts isn't clear to me.
--- Quote ---Threshold of 0- If a bot drives the algae population to 0 and kills itself, it's not too interesting, is it?
--- End quote ---
Why not?
--- Quote ---Delay of 5x*- If they can't keep a 5x delay without going on a murderous rampage and killing everything, then they aren't exactly intelligent-behavior bots, are they?
--- End quote ---
Why 5 times. Why a delay of 5 cycles instead of 1 cycle. Doesn't matter much anyway.
--- Quote ---100 as the pop cap- if the bots can hoard their veggies and garden them, so much the better. However, the veggy population should still be reasonably low, even if none are killed.
--- End quote ---
Why should it be reasonably low?
--- Quote ---population@20-25- Moonfisher evolved IB soccerbots based on neural networks that maintain a population of up to 3000 in a size 13 field with only 25 veggies. So, if evolved NNbots can survive in a size 13 sim with 25 bots, hand-made bots should be able to survive in a size-12 sim with 25 veggies as well.
--- End quote ---
If those bots can do it, it doesn't have to mean, all bots need to do it.
--- Quote ---Abyaly-
You said:
"We already have a way of dealing with random chance. It's a pretty good one. We don't need another."
a bit earlier. What was that? And how does moving algae force contrived complexity, exactly?
--- End quote ---
Possibly he means the way the leagues are running right now.
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