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Overall league thoughts

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Moonfisher:
I'm very much against any coustom code put into veggies... what's the point of making rules against rape if you can just write your own veggy ? The whole reason rape is dominating the F1 league is because you can rape alge and put an entire genome in them over a few cycles.
If you want to allow viruses, raping or coustom buildt veggies then you need to give like 1 nrg per kilo veggy and have high costs for body mass or something... but in the end I definately recomend not letting anyone mess with the veggies... it's currently the strongest dirty trick in F1, so it's definately something we wouldn't want in this league I think.
Just saying, currently the 2 top bots in F1 are holding that position because they put their genes in the alge... it's a great advantage to controll the alge in a sim, but it's completely overpowered when you can get enough dna in the alge fast enough. (Atleast for viruses you need to channel the virus before it can fire)

I do agree that a specific alge for the alge settings in the league could be a good idea... but I think it should only reproduce and regulate body if anything, no movement or anything like that...
Also you can choose to regulate how much energy is delivered as body vs nrg, so you can probably just balance it right for Alga Minimalis. (Maybe make it reproduce less often or something)

I think most of the current costs are fine as they are... except maybe shell and poison could be more expensive for this league... but we should try to do the math and realy balance shell/poison and shot costs... not sure exactly how much and all, but somewhere around -1 shots removing shell at a lower costs that creating shell and -6 shots costing more than the shell they remove... I think... I'd aim somewhere in that neighborhood.

I agree we need atleast medium fluid resistance, but if it's not hard enough then I vote for more fluids resistance rather than messing too much with costs... I think shel and poison are what realy needs to be balanced, no need to make it all complicated by making litle tweeks on eveything...

Not sure how I feel about day and night cycles... I don't realy see the point I guess... and hamstring food and defending your veggy breeding ground to slowly end up controlling all veggies in the field is a strategy I would be very exited to see someone use... I mean that's pretty close to antbots. At least there's some interesting behavior there. And since you can't use mem shots or positive .tieloc values then you can't force veggies to reproduce or anything like that...
And the field size and fluids should already force people to keep the alge they find alive, bots that kill the veggies will dies of starvation as they deserve

And didn't finish reading everything... but I think I noticed most new stuff in here

jknilinux:
Moonfisher- I think we've pretty much agreed already that if thick fluid resistance isn't enough, then we'll modify the costs more, but I still think the lowered age costs etc... are good ideas.

The point of day/night cycles would be to limit the veggy population and energy to low levels I guess- wait what was the reason?

Alright, and no custom "symbiotic" veggies.

bacillus:
I do agree that Alga Minimalis may be a little unsuitable for this; how about writing a different one that spreads itself, eg. moves a large distance for a few cycles then fixes itself? Just having all the veggies clustered together is making the league a gold mine hunt rather than a test of survival.

Peter:

--- Quote from: jknilinux ---Well, I think we should try it with and without an energy cap in the trials, and see how it goes. For those trials, the new list of best bots to test might be Bouncer, Caterpillar, and Bacillus' 3rd-to-last ant. Where is that ant anyway?
--- End quote ---
Bouncer should be a nice trial bot to start with. I see it as the start and possibly the end of shot-bots in this league. It is decent shot-bot. I doubt if a normal shot-bot(F3-style) in the thick fluid conditions could do much better then this bot.
I think the current conditions are plenty enough for a proper designed tie-kinda-bot to win from it.

Caterpillar, sorry to say. But I think this bot isn't fully able to survive jet. I think less then bouncer at the moment.

I wonder how the ant-bot will do. I even wouldn't be much suprised if it couldn't survive properly.


--- Quote ---I can agree with thick fluid, keeping the F1 tie costs, and a high pop. cap where we instead regulate veggies with day/night cycles. Very low (non-zero) age costs and 8 nrg per turn for veggies also sounds good.
--- End quote ---
For the gold-mining spoken where bacillus had it about. I would go for a high starter amount of veggies. And a amount of 8 nrg per turn or even less, and less starting nrg for every veggie. That way you'll get a higher spread and veggies with less income. The extra spreid of veggies will be more fair, becouse every bot will have a more equal change for veggies.
I will too be better for many bots at starters, so if more agree. We should look how an F2 will do. I hope most survive in starters but kill themself becouse all veggies are gone.


--- Quote ---By the way, what are etches?
--- End quote ---
If I said it it are edges.  (amazing how I wraped english there)

Otherwise it hasn't got anything to do with DB I wouldn't care.

Moonfisher

--- Quote ---I think most of the current costs are fine as they are... except maybe shell and poison could be more expensive for this league... but we should try to do the math and realy balance shell/poison and shot costs... not sure exactly how much and all, but somewhere around -1 shots removing shell at a lower costs that creating shell and -6 shots costing more than the shell they remove... I think... I'd aim somewhere in that neighborhood.
--- End quote ---
Do -1 shots remove shell?

jknilinux:
Well, I'm hoping the ants can survive- if they can't, then there might be something wrong with the rules. Or maybe it's just that the ants are SB(single bot)s, and the current IBBL rules are very against SBs.
Anyway, once welwordian finishes his fungus-bot, that might be good to include in the fine-tuning trials too. I still think caterpillar should be included as well once you get it working- maybe looking at PY's inchworm2 could help with the design of it. I also agree that we should include a random F3 bot, just to make sure that it can't survive there. You never know...

Bacillus- I agree, gold-mining is a problem. And I don't think we should just start with a lot of vegs like peter suggested, having few vegs was one of the more important points in this league. So, in my opinion, the modified veg should move around randomly like you suggested for a few cycles- maybe even having them move constantly is a good idea.

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