General > Biology

Crows are pretty damn smart

<< < (6/30) > >>

Peter:

--- Quote from: gymsum ---http://www.rifeconference.com/


sorry about that... rife device..

Anyways, sorry I cant spell
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---Royal Raymond Rife (May 16, 1888 – August 5, 1971) claimed to have used a special optical microscope to observe very small viruses. Bacillus X and Bacillus Y (at some point renamed BX and BY viruses) were experimentally isolated, and Rife causally linked them to two forms of malignancy (cancer): carcinoma, and sarcoma. This renaming of these bacillus forms by Rife to that of viruses is now known to have been in error. The limitations of optical microscopes, and the size of viruses is such that most viruses cannot be seen under an optical microscope. Furthermore, the scientific understanding is that the estimated 15% of human cancers that are caused by viruses are caused by a number of different types. Rife's virus claims must therefore be seen as mistaken.[1]

Rife also claimed to have rendered, in the living patient, such viruses and many others inert by means of a "beam ray" device, which was claimed to devitalize pathogens by inducing resonances in their constituent chemicals[2][3]. Rife's treatment has been unanimously condemned as worthless by mainstream scientists,[4] and "Rife devices" have been blamed for the deaths of cancer sufferers who have used them in place of medical treatment.[5][6]
--- End quote ---
Quote from wikipedia

The special microscope shooting protons, is just a optical microscope. He said it was a special microscope that can see very little things, not really confirmed by other scientists at the time, becouse of high costs it never cam in full pruduction.
(few years later there came a real microscope that could see it, from other scientists and a different mechanism, like an optimal micropscope could see virusus, in most types even bacteria are pretty small.)
He also had a alternative-cure(?beam?ray?) for cancer. Yes, indeed great......(I didn't meant that)

Numsgil:
I'm not sure I understand what this Rife guy had to do with anything when gymsum first brought him up...  Something about "all frequencies are vibrational energies...", but I don't see what a goofball "biologist" (I use the term loosely) has to do with energy, mass, string theory, etc. etc.

gymsum:
Well you see, the string theory is actually a complete theoretical model of the universe which basically sums all other theories into one... Energy and mass are the exact same thing in the laws of physics. The rife device (not as a medicinal cure) is just one example of why the US government has been experimenting in high frequency emmitting devices (currently I beleive ISrael possesses anti-ballistics lasers which work on similar principles). I have done this experiment already, I took a random sampling of bacterial cultures from my town and let them propigate in a lab condition. I set 10% of them aside as a control and submitted the others to sound waves and light at vhl and vhf (very high and very low) and did a count everytime, no other conditions were altered. Some times the bacteria seemed to melt into a puddle when under sound wave radiation, and when under extreme frequencies even at low levels of brightness (I cant remember that word or care to google it.. candle?) the bacteria went into an accelerate enzymatic cellular break down. I'll ask the lab assistant to fax the read out to me. I was not able to prove that radiation in any form could "cure" anything (which is not why I was interested in Rife theory), but I was able to show that radiation, regardless of its state/form, or how fast it traveled, radiation can destroy living organisms. If I remember correctly the cuttoff of effective radiation at vhl was about 7.2 hz. This means the same principle guiding the fundamentals of light emission guides the same principles as concusive/elastic collisions. I brought up Rife not for discussion as a medical practice, but as a demenstration that Energy at Mass at any scale are = with an error of 10%. Proton is light, so I alraedy knew that but I thank Peter for clarifying it; radiation has always been known to destroy things in the wrong way, and sound seems to change the inertia of small things to produce a "group" inertia which is not driven by the group of objects. (The above experiement is not safe for home use, best for experts and in a real lab).

This experiement is safe and anyone can do it with a few things:

A C-Clamp,
Nice Speaker (something cheap tho)
Sand

Its all over youtube, creating formations in sand. The sand aligns along the nodes of the soundwaves creating voids where the wave coagulates. Nothing sigificant? One cosideration is that Cellular life could have started from a form of radiation which caused the shape of cells, cell division, and things like the growth process of human embryo.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=s9GBf8y0lY0

anyways we've gone way beyond the topic of crows and their brain size... With some final facts I believe the connection between neural nets and radiation can be made, since electricity is mass.

Numsgil:
You're confusing a lot of things.


--- Quote from: gymsum ---Well you see, the string theory is actually a complete theoretical model of the universe which basically sums all other theories into one...
--- End quote ---

No, not quite.  It's a way of unifying the four elemental forces.  (The three on the atomic scale (electromagnetism, weak, and strong) and that other one that operates on the galactic scale (gravity)).  Assuming for a moment that such a theory is possible and we had it in hand, it wouldn't really help biologists, sociologists, economists, anthropologists, etc.  The theories these "soft" sciences deal with are emergent, and understanding the extremely fundamental rules that give rise to that emergence isn't really helpful in understanding the end behavior.  Oh, and It would be of extremely limited use to chemists, too, which is one of the "hard" sciences.  N-body gravity (ie: non uniform gravitational fields) doesn't really come in to play in chemistry very often   My point here is that assuming you had the completed string theory in your hand, you still couldn't make predictions about all the sort of events that interest humans: ie: phenomena that's measured using seconds, meters, dollar signs, etc. etc.


--- Quote ---Energy and mass are the exact same thing in the laws of physics. The rife device (not as a medicinal cure) is just one example of why the US government has been experimenting in high frequency emmitting devices (currently I beleive ISrael possesses anti-ballistics lasers which work on similar principles).
--- End quote ---

You're confusing two issues here.  Energy/mass equivelance only really matters on the atomic level.  Like accelerating a proton to .999 the speed of light or splitting a uranium atom.  It would also come in to play at the macroscopic level if you had a large object moving at relativistic speeds, but that doesn't happen terribly often.

Now, high frequency lasers do not rely on energy/mass equivelance at all.  They rely on something known as the photoelectric effect, which is far more pedestrian.  Basically when a substance absorbs light it spits out excited electrons (electricity).  This is the process that lets plants produce chemical energy from sunlight.  If the light has a high enough frequency (a light's frequency describes its energy level), it can cause biochemical molecules to break their bonds, causing a cell to basically cook.  Or in the case of an anti-missile laser, it causes the missile to prematurely detonate by "cooking" the innards of the missile.

Actually, now that I think of it, I wonder how temperature gains (kinetic energy of atoms) are caused by the photoelectric effect, since the excited electrons that are created have mass that is way less than the mass of their atoms' nucleuses...  Maybe there's just a lot of 'em?


--- Quote ---I have done this experiment already, I took a random sampling of bacterial cultures from my town and let them propigate in a lab condition. I set 10% of them aside as a control and submitted the others to sound waves and light at vhl and vhf (very high and very low) and did a count everytime, no other conditions were altered. Some times the bacteria seemed to melt into a puddle when under sound wave radiation, and when under extreme frequencies even at low levels of brightness (I cant remember that word or care to google it.. candle?) the bacteria went into an accelerate enzymatic cellular break down.
--- End quote ---

lumens is the word you're looking for...


--- Quote ---I brought up Rife not for discussion as a medical practice, but as a demenstration that Energy at Mass at any scale are = with an error of 10%.
--- End quote ---

Destroying cells with energy doesn't destroy the matter.  It just rearranges it.  If you isolated the cells in a closed system (pitri dish with a lid), weighed it, killed the cells with energy (ie: light), then weighed it again, the two masses will be within measurable tolerance of exactly equal.  The law of conservation of mass still holds for non-relativistic situations.


--- Quote ---Proton is light, so I alraedy knew that but I thank Peter for clarifying it;
--- End quote ---

Peter was quoting you, not clarifying.  A proton is the nucleus of a hydrogen atom.  The word you want is photon.  They're quite different.


--- Quote ---With some final facts I believe the connection between neural nets and radiation can be made, since electricity is mass.
--- End quote ---

No, electricity is not mass.  Electricity is made of electrons, which have mass (very, very, tiny mass).  Electricity itself is energy, though (or more accurately, a flow of energy).

Lets say you have a battery you just bought from the store.  You use it for a solid week in a flashlight, until it's dead.  If you weigh that battery, its mass will not have changed*.  How can this be if the battery has used all of its electricity and electricity is mass?  It's because all the electrons are right back where they started from (inside the battery).  The only difference is that they have a different energy potential than they did before.

* It will actually have changed, but the amount of change is something on the order of the mass of an electron.  For practical purposes 0.

And even supposing that electricity did have mass, how would that relate to neural nets?  Neural nets built in software or in the brains of creatures operate according to an abstract, mathematically definable base.  It's that case of the airplane made out of aluminum again.  You can learn all you want about aluminum, but it won't help you understand how an airpline flies, because the airplane's built from aluminum, not defined by it.

gymsum:
The conservation of energy applies both at atomic and massive scale, it causes suns to burn out... If electricity is energy, then it is in fact , massive.. Anyways this is becoming a debate of words more than fact, as mass and energy have to be equal for the conservation of energy to exist, otherwise you burned things there would be an imbalance in total energy spent, meaning you wou.ld produce either less light, ash or other. Anyways if no one here is willing to think of energy and neural nets as one in the same, theres no way I can convince any of you, but the laws of thermodynamics are clear cut, the amount for work put out is always equal to the total available energy in a system, including its energy as light, heat, mass and other. While things may be very small in scale, doesnt mean the same laws do not apply, gravity does paly a role in chemistry, or the Earth would be barren of oxygen and hydrogen... And yes, just remember no matter what the work is, conservation of energy applies constant, its a Universal law in Physics with absolutely no exception.. SO the battery powering the laser runs on the exact same prinicples, ever notice how batteris get hot, its wasting some of its availble energy of electricity in the form of heat... Im not explaining lift vs mass, its energy and mass equivelancy on an atomic level resulting in a singularity of the definition of energy (I.e String Theory). Thermodynamics can be measured witht eh first law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics The Photons emmit light, the photons hit objects and excite the object's photons, and in intense sources like the sun, the photons can give energy/heat to living organisms. OF coarse the more this happens (energy use) the more entropy occurs, meaning that the next time you try to create the energy, its so widely spraed thin that its more difficult to light the ash remains of paper. Anyways back to the crow:

Yes crows know things, but they are no PArrot. So I fail to see the connection mentioned between Alex the parrot and the Crow unless the argument is that Crows are capable of Parrot behaviors, not sure if their vocal box can handle human sounds...

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page