Author Topic: Invisibility RESOLVED 2.43.1g  (Read 5007 times)

Offline Moonfisher

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Invisibility RESOLVED 2.43.1g
« on: April 03, 2008, 06:00:54 PM »
I was running a bot to test some new eyes for spinning...
And I noticed it's sometimes unable to see an alge for a period of time.
I tryed running other strong league bots, and they seem to have the same problem.
But it's not just alge, tryed running the bot against Bubbles and one of them stayed behind not getting killed.
If I look at the bot the eyes pointing at the "invisible" bot are empty (But other eyes work as intended), if I look at the "invisible" bot the eyes seem to work but it doesn't engage anthing.
Not sure how this is happening...
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 11:12:04 AM by EricL »

Offline Moonfisher

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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2008, 07:31:05 PM »
This version of Eyespin beats multiply4
No comunication, nothing too fancy, just the eyes and some basic fighting and defences.
No viral or tie defence though, so it's not a league bot. The point is for the eyes to go into Lovebot anyway, just needed a seperate testbot, and then I needed to test some stuff, see how to put the eyes to good use, and with Excalibur broken I had to tweek using Multiply

Offline EricL

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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2008, 08:00:24 PM »
I suspect what you are seeing is an artifact of the way bots and the eye grid are displayed.  VB still draws circles as circles (probably a function of hardware acceleration in the display adapter) even when the aspect ratio of the field does not match the aspect ratio of your display dimensions.   This causes it to appear that a bot should be visible when in fact it is not as well as a host of other issues - shots missing when it looks like they should hit, etc.  The more your display dimensions depart from 4X3, the worse this appears but as far as the bots are concerned, everythign is fine.  Their world is 4X3 and everything appears fine and consistant to them despite what we see.

Try unlocking the screen and look again.  When the screen is unlocked, I set the visible square dimensions to match the 4X3 aspect ratio of the field.  This gives a closer match between what you see and what the bot sees though it will still not be perfect becuase the physical pixels on many displays are not square.  The pixel's per square inch won't be the same in the x and y dimensions so you still won;t be seeing reality.   Watch the aim marker on a spinning bot.  It traces the true bot surface, which is almost always an ellipse as far as we see it.
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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2008, 08:04:34 PM »
Might also be a bug in the way buckets work.  Eric, could you have a debug display that draws the bucket grid, so if there's an eye issue we can check to see if it's an issue with a bot in bucket A not seeing a bot in bucket B?

Offline EricL

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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2008, 08:06:40 PM »
Quote from: Numsgil
Might also be a bug in the way buckets work.  Eric, could you have a debug display that draws the bucket grid, so if there's an eye issue we can check to see if it's an issue with a bot in bucket A not seeing a bot in bucket B?
It's already there, even in 2.43.1f.  Enable the Egrid.  The Medium grid size is exactly the bucket grid.  Buckets are 4000X4000.
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Offline Moonfisher

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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2008, 02:48:58 AM »
Hmmm sounds odd, if I'm just not seing the reality that still doesn't explain why the alge don't get killed for a longer period of time when they're surounded by enemies.
I mean it's not some of the bots who can't see the alge, it's all of them... then suddenly the alge becomes "visible" again and they all jump it at the same time...
As mentioned it can happen to regular bots aswell, but it mostly happens to alge... it just seems like the alge should die... I'll try running 4X3.

Tryed unlocking, same results. Theres something wrong, these things are fast and good at scanning their vicinity, alge should never be allowed to live for that long.
If you keep running the simulation you'll see some of the alge floating around for a long time completely surounded and nothing happens, then the alge reproduces and the bots instantly kill off the offspring but leaving the mother. (It varies, sometimes the mother gets killed too, sometimes not, but run the simulation, it's very obvious that something is wrong, you can also try this with any kind of bot, this bot just makes it very visible).
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 02:56:56 AM by Moonfisher »

Offline Moonfisher

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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2008, 03:15:18 AM »
The right side of the field gets cleared imediately, seems like cloaking devices only work on the left side of the field
Also added a newer better version of eyespin.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2008, 03:49:57 AM »
Definately sounds like an issue with the bucket system to me.  Something weird with a bot not getting added to a bucket, or bots not looking in a bucket.

Offline EricL

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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2008, 10:19:11 AM »
It sures sounds like a bucket problem but I haven't seen it yet.  Testing on both the 2.43.1f gold code and 2.43.1g.  Veggies never last long enough to reproduce for me.  I'll keep running it.  How long does it take before it becomes apparent?

BTW, love the vision system...
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2008, 10:27:50 AM »
Never mind.  I see it.
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Offline EricL

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« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2008, 11:01:22 AM »
Fixed in 2.43.1g

Bucket position isn't saved in sim files.  I recalculate it from the X,Y position when bots are loaded.  Had an initialization issue where bots loaded from saved sims that were suppoosed to be added to buckets along the top or left edge would not be, effectivly making them invisible.   Fixed in 2.43.1g.

 
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Offline Moonfisher

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« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2008, 04:41:30 PM »
Nice, it was increasing the importance of starting positions in league fights, since if most of your bots spawned on the left side they got off to a bad start.
I also like the eyes, it was just a testbot to begin with, but the eyes allow it to scan for food realy fast, so felt it deserved to be a bot in itself to show the advantage of the eyes (Rather than just shoving it into lovebot).
The scan isn't perfect, it can miss things at times, but it's fast, and the odds are high that it should spot the majority of any enemies to enter it's vicinity.
If several friendlies allign the right way it can keep jumping between them without checking the angles in between the eyes, or moving around.
One way of being more thorough would be to keep track or rotations and offset the angle by 35 for each rotation, or having periods for moving and periods for scanning. But appart from being more troublesome this could also have negative effects, or end up with the same result.

I think a good simple addition would be comunicating enemy positions, so whenever it looks at it's own theres a chance they will point it at the nearest enemy, and if that enemy is too far away theres a good chance that we will have a new angle offset, so either way it should help. It could still cause gaps though, if you keep getting redirected past an enemy because you see a friendly who sees another enemy first, it's not THAT likely to fail though, since if a bot see's an enemy it'll rush towards it, so next rotation should be different.

But I didn't want to add too much, was afraid that people would think the effective scanning was caused by the comunication and not the eyes.
I've come to admire how a lot of bots can be very successfull with just a few clever genes.
And I haven't seen anyone steal any of my genes yet  
I like it when people steal my work, I think it's a great compliment.
All I've seen so far is mod getting used in the example for the new tie in/out sysvars (BTW, sweet, I'll get to work on a MB when I have time, but I'm probably not done complaining ), but using mod isn't something I can claim as my idea or anything, although I haven't seen any other bots use it, and I use it all the time it's very usefull IMO.
So I wanted to show how these eyes could provide an advantage for a lot of bots, in a bot that would be easy to understand and steal from
Even set up vars and constants that I don't use in case people want to expand the system to switch between different eye setups or change eyewidth

The newest version is called Spinner and is listed as an F2 bot in the starting gate, not sure if it can beat F2, but it beats the old F1 league only using the eyes some simple venom, shell and poison and 3 simple defensive genes to catch the worst viruses.
BTW is it allowed to push a positive value into and enemy's .tieval for an F2 bot ? If the enemy is trying to tie feed it'll feed you through the tie...
If it's illegal for F2 bots I can change it to push -2 into shoot instead, might actualy be more effective.

Offline abyaly

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« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2008, 09:00:59 PM »
Quote
And I haven't seen anyone steal any of my genes yet unsure.gif
Just you wait

PS:
*.refxpos *.xpos sub abs *.refypos *.ypos sub abs pyth
is the same as
*.refxpos *.refypos dist
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 09:07:14 PM by abyaly »
Lancre operated on the feudal system, which was to say, everyone feuded all
the time and handed on the fight to their descendants.
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Offline Moonfisher

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« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2008, 09:00:23 AM »
Yeah but everytime I've been using dist I've had bugs, not so sure they where actualy related to dist in any way.... but it was a way for me to be sure that wasn't the issue. Also using pyth you can use it to measure the distance between two other bots, although I fail to see a use for that... maybe in a complex MB... so yeah  dist would probably be the "right" way to do it.
And looking forward to seeing something I made put to good use