Author Topic: cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u  (Read 3600 times)

Offline Welwordion

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« on: November 20, 2007, 12:05:07 PM »
Well the title already says the cost multiplier automatically gets set to zero in 2.43s.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 01:31:24 PM by EricL »

Offline EricL

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2007, 12:13:01 PM »
In what scenerio?  This is likely by design.
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Offline EricL

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2007, 12:24:31 PM »
Okay, I just read your PM.  So, you open the costs dialog, change the cost multiplier to something non-zero, close the dialog, save changes and then open it again and it's 0, right?

What is your zero costs threshold on the Costs dialog?  This might be by design.  The code may be zeroing CostX because the bot popualtion is below the threshold at which you told it to do so.

If you don't think so, can you post a SIM please?  Thanks.

If it turns out not to be a bug but you think the UI is confusing, feel free to post a suggestion as to how to improve the UI.
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Offline Numsgil

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2007, 01:14:58 PM »
Could this have to do with the regional settings bug?  That is, are you entering in a decimal or an integral value?

Offline Peter

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2007, 01:28:07 PM »
Yes, this could. I was having desame problems. Changing anything resetted everyting under 1 to zero.

And I noticed if I made a change in the regional settings to set it different, some other programs begins to get the problems darwinbots has(for example excel gets annoying with dots).

Now a way to make all the programs happy.
Oh my god, who the hell cares.

Offline Welwordion

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2007, 08:53:31 AM »
Strange I put "autotrophs included in target"  out changed the values and it still ressetted to 0 but then I put  autotroph on again and it stas 1 now (the value I put in cost multiplier) very strange, unfortunately I can not replicate the bug anymore.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 08:55:07 AM by Welwordion »

Offline EricL

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2007, 12:12:32 PM »
You should have posted the sim when you had the bug and saved us all this time and effort and discussion.

Look folks, I'm all for keeping things casual and I love a good discussion, but a bug report without a sim is really poor form.... I can't verify or reproduce a bug without a sim.  You might as well not even bother.  I spend too much time on DB already without going round and round on what ifs and maybes.   Posting a bug without a sim attached in my book is stealing.  Your stealing my time.  Knock it off.
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Offline Numsgil

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2007, 01:31:57 PM »
It's tempting to fall in to an ego trap when people have problems with a program you've spent hundreds of hours on.  How can you be having trouble with X?  I spent a whole week on X!  Then you fall in to a "works fine on my computer" head bashing match, and the whole things turns sour.  I had this problem in the fall of 05 when I was working on 2.4.  I just didn't want to see some of the bugs, even when they were right in front of me, and got angry when people pointed them out.  Not saying that's happening to you here, just sharing my experience.

For some guidelines, we should say that posts without a sim (zipped for size) attached are assumed to be a new user having difficulty with a feature (ie: the 'fix' in 'bugs & fixes).  It's not the program's fault, it's the posters, and they're blaming it on the program because they're frustrated.

UI bugs, which are impossible to reproduce, should probably be handled with remote assistance.  That way you can see the bug happening yourself.  Most XP computers have this come standard.  Users that don't want to do remote assistance (even though it's totally safe) fall in the same category as users without sims: they're new and don't understand a feature.

Offline Welwordion

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2007, 01:48:38 PM »
Well ... what the hell has the sim to do with, the options resetting themself?
I mean I do not understand much about the inner workings of the software, so I did not even think attaching a sim file would have been any use for you in this case.

remote assistance ... well theoretically I did know that programms exist that do that, maybe I even used them  before when I was really desperate because something did not work, but I am inherently clumsy when dealing with computer troubles, I am more a try and error type then someone who relly understands what he is doing with his pc.
Somehow the knowledge does not seem to stick in my mind, hell I used pcs for years and I am still clumsy as a noob regarding its maintenance.
Well nevertheless I will take a look at remote assistance.

P.S.: After looking  into a documentation regarding remote assistant it does not seem like a programm designed to monitor  programms on ones own computer so how exactly
its supposed to help, I mean its not that my whole pc crashes so ...???
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 02:00:29 PM by Welwordion »

Offline EricL

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2007, 01:50:19 PM »
I welcome all bug reports.  I look at everything. I spend more time explaining things (patiently) to new users than anybody does (these days).  I have no problems with new users filing incomplete bugs which end up by design.  If nothing else, it points out where the program is confusing and should be improved and I'd rather investigate 100 bugs that end up being by design than miss one real one.

But for vetrans, we need to raise the bar on bug reporting.  Repro steps, excepted results, actual results, posted sim, follow up to regress and close resolved bugs, etc.  It takes two minutes to file a bug the right way.   There is little excuse for not doing so.  I fear we have lost a bug here for lack of a sim.  Besides, people want me spending my time in the code, not going back and forth for days querying for details that should have been provided in the first place.  That may sound selfish or arogant, but the truth is that I'm the guy with his head in the code at present.  Spending 2 minutes to make me more effecient is not be too much to ask.

Perhaps it's time for a post on bug posting guidelines.

And Welwordion, I'm not picking on you.  Our time zones are just sufficiently out of sync that you have a tendency to catch me before coffee.   Just my turn to vent.
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Offline Peter

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2007, 01:53:18 PM »
Quote from: EricL
Okay, I just read your PM.  So, you open the costs dialog, change the cost multiplier to something non-zero, close the dialog, save changes and then open it again and it's 0, right.
I may have said it but this could have to do woth the regional settings.

Doe this appear everytime you change a number in the costs panel then.

Open in control panel(or whatever it is in yourlanguege)
open regional settings(or country settings or anything)
change the decimal format.
a ',' into a '.' without the ''.


Quote from: Numsgil
For some guidelines, we should say that posts without a sim (zipped for size) attached are assumed to be a new user having difficulty with a feature (ie: the 'fix' in 'bugs & fixes).  It's not the program's fault, it's the posters, and they're blaming it on the program because they're frustrated.

I haven't seen many questions about the program here. Questons about the program mostly are into another place, if that's what you mean.
But yes I am pretty new, I am having right now problems. I am a little frustrated(could also have to do with the fact I am feelinh a little ill.). And I am blaming the program, yes, I am blaming the program it crashes, yes. But I know it may happen it is a beta-version.

Quote
UI bugs, which are impossible to reproduce, should probably be handled with remote assistance.  That way you can see the bug happening yourself.  Most XP computers have this come standard.  Users that don't want to do remote assistance (even though it's totally safe) fall in the same category as users without sims: they're new and don't understand a feature.
That could be something to do, yes good idea.

edit :heh new posts.
Quote
I welcome all bug reports. I look at everything. I spend more time explaining things (patiently) to new users than anybody does (these days). I have no problems with new users filing incomplete bugs which end up by design. If nothing else, it points out where the program is confusing and should be improved and I'd rather investigate 100 bugs that end up being by design than miss one real one.
Ok, I have posted one or two design bugs. Is that so bad. I will try to post less design bugs.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 02:04:26 PM by Peter »
Oh my god, who the hell cares.

Offline EricL

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2007, 02:00:37 PM »
Quote from: Welwordion
Well ... what the hell has the sim to do with, the options resetting themself?
I mean I do not understand much about the inner workings of the software, so I did not even think attaching a sim file would have been any use for you in this case.
For one thing, it lets me check whether the bug is real or whether it's user error, people misundertanding the UI, etc.  All the options get saved in the sim file.  It lets me see the circumnstances of the bug.  The number and kinds of bots, the type of sim (are they using pond mode or planet eaters?) that kind of thing.   There may be a specific combination of settings causing a problem or the settings may be correct but there may a problem with displaying the actaul underlying values (setting slider values, radio buttons, etc).  There's a million things bugs could be and the sim is the place to start.  The sims gives me something to go on.
Many beers....

Offline Welwordion

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2007, 02:23:27 PM »
Ok first are there any other programms that could monitor darwinbots?
Second what would remote assitance exactly do, how and what data?
Third when you people talk about regional settings, do you refer to an option in darwinbots or of windows?
And when you speak of control panel I did not know what you were referring to?
(I searched around and I think I found what was meant, sorry have a tendency to speak questions and search for an answer afterwards ^^)

Offline EricL

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2007, 02:53:16 PM »
Quote from: Welwordion
Ok first are there any other programms that could monitor darwinbots?
Depends on what you mean by "monitor".  The short answer is no.

Quote from: Welwordion
Second what would remote assitance exactly do, how and what data?
It lets someone like me or Nums "take over" your computer remotely over the internet.  See the screen, run programs, move the mouse, etc. like we are sitting there in front of it.  It's a nice idea we should explore but in practice can be problematic.  I'd prefer compelte bug reports for now.

Quote from: Welwordion
Third when you people talk about regional settings, do you refer to an option in darwinbots or of windows?
Windows.  It's the setting in Windows that tells programs amougn other things how to format numbers, use commas or periods for decimal points, etc.

Quote from: Welwordion
And when you speak of control panel I did not know what you were referring to?
The Windows contol panel.
Many beers....

Offline Welwordion

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cost mutiplier reset to zero in 2.43s RESOLVED 2.43u
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2007, 08:05:54 AM »
The values is not Zero but it resets to the given value. sim attached.