Complications...

[k0zm0]

O.K. I'm starting to be very pissed about everything I read here.

Let us remember that DB is a "virtual world" - not "real".
So we don't need to be very precise.
I don't think there is a computer in the world, that can calculate every condition that exist in nature, so we should simplify it.
Let us simplify nature.
1. gather info
2. make it simple
As I know, DB 3.0 will contain CO2 and O2 levels (and other?)in the e-grid, but you can't see it. Why would you? The same is with enzymes. Why do we need their presence? Let's just asume they are there. Anyway, if we add to much stuff to DB, it's gonna become more and more complex, what meens, it's gonna become more and more unstable.

[Zelos]

its not real coz we havent made it real. we make it more real like. and by making it more complex the bots get mroe options, and why shhould we asume they are there? its like whit ethern they had in the begining of 20th centry. they asumed it was tehre and adepted all the results to match it. which is wrong, dont asume anything. and simple=bad, if nature have wanted it to be simple we would still be a pathetic bacteria. you wanna be one?

[Zelos]

simple things for a simple mind, complex things for a complex mind

[shvarz]

Kozmo, why are you pissed off?  The idea to go in the direction of enzymes was accepted together by all people on the board.  You've never raised your voice to argue against it.  Were we supposed to guess that you'll be pissed off?

If you want your opinion heard, simply state it.  People listen.

[Zelos]

and why getting pissed of by that we want more options? if you want it simple use an old version if you want. ur pissing me of by bieng pissed of by nothing

[Numsgil]

K0zmo, you were the one to suggest O2 and CO2 in the first place!

Remember?

Let's remember that what we're doing here is adding complexdity, which is different from making hte program complicated.  Complexity allows emergence, which is wht ALife is all about.

[Old Henk]

I understand k0zmo's irritation. The next DB version will be a lot more complex, and without proper documentation it will 'bounce off' "newbies" because of it's sheer complexity...  
:) <=advanced DB-dudes
:huh: <=not so advanced DB-dude
:wacko: <=New botmaker
:tantrum: <= K0zmo (just kiddding :) )

[Numsgil]

Someday, after I get the basic mebo system, etc. in place, I'll sit down and start a wiki-esque help file.

[PurpleYouko]

For now all we will need is to add to the in-game help that already exists. We are still a little behind there. I have most (not sure if all) of 2.35 up there but none of the real new stuff.

 :D  PY  :D

[MightyPenguin]

Guys, I hate to tell you this, but I can barely get my head round all the new functions that have been added since I joined. Addmittedly this is because I haven't tried, but it still shows that the point of newbie hosing was reached long, long ago.

[Numsgil]

So obviously the answer is to not try to get your head around it all at once.

Darwinbots will probably eventually be a system too complex for any single person to understand entirely.  That's good.  Real life is kind of that way.

As long as the new added parts don't demand you understand how they work, what's the problem.  Use them or not.

[shvarz]

So, what we need is some default settings that are very logical and fun to watch.  maybe default to some sim with preset bots.  Also only very basic controls should be available on the surface and a tutorial that does not explain all the nuances but rather the general ideas.

The default bots that come with the program should be very different in their behaviour from each other and have descriptive names.  So that a newbie could make a sim like this: "Hmm, let's start with having grass.  And some cows...  And some wolves. Let's see what it looks like".

[Numsgil]

I agree.

When you first get the program, it has you run T Preservans, which has got to be the least exciting species on the face of the planet.

[PurpleYouko]

I know several people who have downloaded DB and run the first cheasey, inefficient little robots then deleted it in disgust before they ever really figure out what is going on.
My brother is one. I finally persuaded him to download DB about a month back. He took one look at it then deleted the program.

"couldn't get on with it" he said

He has just (last month) been awarded his pHd in Optical laser Physics so this is nothing to do with complexity and a whole lot to do with lack of fun in the early, let's figure out how it works, days.

DB needs to be more fun from the start if we want more people.

 :(  PY  :(

[shvarz]

I already mentined it, but a more updated web-site with explanations and pictures would also help.  I could work on that if someone gave me access to it...