Author Topic: Genesis, 2001, and Darwin  (Read 17512 times)

Offline Old Henk

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Genesis, 2001, and Darwin
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2005, 02:10:28 PM »
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btw, im not religious, but wasn't Jesus god's son and God himself?
and why does the world need a God for you guys?
notice "FOR YOU"
Ok, Here goes. This is basically the christian fate.

Chronologically:
1. God created everything =>Everything is good and nice and perfect and stuff.

2. Eve and Adam (two first humans) eat from the tree 'of good and evil', which God had forbid them to do.

3. Sin comes to world => not so nice and perfect anymore. People die from now on.

4. God promises that a savior will come.

5. Lotsa time passes

6. Year 0: Jesus is born. He is the son of God, and 100% human and 100% God. (Dont' ask me how He did it)

7. about 30 AD: Jesus dies on the cross, and thus pays for all the sins.

8. After that: People who accept Jesus as their savior are saved (goto heaven;good afterlife), as Jesus paid for them. Other people are not saved (goto Hell; bad afterlife), as they have to pay for their sins by themselves, which ordinary humans cannot do.

Ok, This is very very basic but you get the idea. It's all written in the bible, you can read it at www.bible.com
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 02:11:09 PM by Henk »

Offline Zelos

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Genesis, 2001, and Darwin
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2005, 02:31:17 PM »
ok, thats how tehy belive, but that doesnt explain why god is needed, and something cant be 200% so that tells against it self. but if you say that he was both son of god and god I can accept it, but not that he is 100% son and 100% god, not accepteble in mathematic
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 02:32:18 PM by zelos »
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2005, 03:26:45 PM »
In my theology:

God, father and overseer.  Has a physical body similar, but not identical (his is obviously immortal) to our own.

Jesus, seperate entity, Creator of Earth under the supervision of the Father, eldest spirit child of the Father (quite literally our oldest brother).  When he came to Earth he recieved a body (which is necessary for eternal progression) which was physically fathered by the Father, as opposed ot the rest of us, who are only spiritually fathered.  Before that he existed only as a spirit.

Also, a matter of personal taste, I hate it when people say: "Jesus died for your sins" because then that sounds like your accusing the other person of sinning.  And "jesus died for my sins" makes it sound like he's your exclusively personal savior, which is rather hubratic (is that a word?)

I much prefer "Jesus died for our sins".

Before the fall, the Earth was in a state of innocence, but also spiritually stagnant.  Without knowledge, choice and agency was pointless.  That's when Adam tasted the fruit, and gained knowledge.  Except with knowledge came responsibility, and we were all held accountable for our acts that we committed when we knew better.

Hence the atonement.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 03:27:05 PM by Numsgil »

Offline PurpleYouko

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Genesis, 2001, and Darwin
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2005, 03:34:17 PM »
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Before the fall, the Earth was in a state of innocence, but also spiritually stagnant. Without knowledge, choice and agency was pointless. That's when Adam tasted the fruit, and gained knowledge. Except with knowledge came responsibility, and we were all held accountable for our acts that we committed when we knew better.

How's this work then?

Before eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil Adam and Eve could have had no concept of right or wrong. That is what the tree gave them right?

How then could they have sinned by eating it since they were not responsible for their actions prior to doing so?

That is messed up dude! It is like me punishing a 2 month old baby for crapping in his diaper after I tell him not to. What kind of father would that make me?

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Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2005, 03:48:58 PM »
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How then could they have sinned by eating it since they were not responsible for their actions prior to doing so?
That's where my church tends to diverge from other churches.

We don't believe they did sin.  They transgressed, which is different.  It means that they had to face the consequences of their choice, but were not damned for doing so (that is, it was automatically covered by the atonement).

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2005, 03:57:48 PM »
They still died though  :P

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Offline Zelos

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« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2005, 04:04:20 PM »
ok, good you have a belief, but I didnt ask WHATS ure belief, I asked WHY does the god need to exist for you
BIG letter=not yell, just show you to look there
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2005, 04:05:36 PM »
But dying isn't so bad, if you believe there is an afterlife and better things to come.

So dying wasn't necessarily a punishment, just a natural consequence (I don't understand the mechanics of that).

Offline Numsgil

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Genesis, 2001, and Darwin
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2005, 04:13:16 PM »
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ok, thats how tehy belive, but that doesnt explain why god is needed, and something cant be 200% so that tells against it self. but if you say that he was both son of god and god I can accept it, but not that he is 100% son and 100% god, not accepteble in mathematic
Your question was how could he be 100% god and 100% son.  So I explained that he's not.

The question "why does there need to be a god' is a pointless question indeed.  Either there is a God or there's not.  'need' doesn't enter anywhere in.

Offline Zelos

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« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2005, 04:27:23 PM »
why make a machine that we dont need, why biuld a machine which can scratch my ass when I ahve a hand which do it just as good. if god doesnt need a creator, why would universe need it then?
When I have the eclipse cannon under my control there is nothing that can stop me from ruling the world. And I wont stop there. I will never stop conquering worlds through the universe. All the worlds in the universe will belong to me. All the species in on them will be my slaves. THE ENIRE UNIVERSE WILL BELONG TO ME AND EVERYTHING IN IT :evil: AND THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE OF you CAN DO TO STOP ME. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2005, 04:39:41 PM »
Who said god didn't have a creator?

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2005, 05:08:24 PM »
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Who said god didn't have a creator?

WOW!  :laugh:

That is one heck of a liberalist riligious view you have there.

I have always come up against the argument that God must exist because all this wonderful stuff couldn't have just got there on its own.

My trump card question was always "Who made God then?"

I guess that one is kind of wasted on you then.  :rolleyes:

I will have to come up with something else I suppose.

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Offline Light

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Genesis, 2001, and Darwin
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2005, 05:14:25 PM »
Most christians I meet say that God is perfect, but if this true, does this mean God has no needs or wants?

and If so why did he create the world, if he had no need or want of it?

If this is not true and God does have wants and needs, isn't this a flaw and so therefore God is not perfect?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 05:15:02 PM by Light »

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2005, 05:40:31 PM »
I believe that we are embryonic gods ourselves.  That is, God created us as a form of reproduction.  Life is then a kind of puberty, when we grow to become more than we were.

That implies that there has been many generations of Gods creating children, some of whom grow to create children themselves.

That also explains God's motives.  God is perfect, so he's found purpose in trying to raise us imperfect humans.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 05:42:10 PM by Numsgil »

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2005, 06:02:25 PM »
Cool  B)

I like that idea.

Perhaps I can be a real Bot God one day

 :D  PY  :D
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D