Author Topic: Thoughts about other a-life progs.  (Read 10693 times)

Offline Numsgil

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Thoughts about other a-life progs.
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2006, 02:32:54 PM »
Yes, every agent based model that eats is like Darwinbots

Well, are you wanting to model real chemistry or fake chemistry?  If you're interested in the actual physical chemicals used by a life form (wether carbon or no) you're going to need a super computer.

I can make a simulation which pretends that some of its organisms are silicon life forms (which BTW isn't all that likely chemically speaking.  You're more likely to see critters that use carbon but use otehr polar molecules instead of water, probably in either very cold or very dense environments.) but that's not going to tell me anything about silicon life forms.

Point is you're going to need a simplified biochemistry whatever your plans are.  And BTW DB's biochemistry, derived from bit patterns etc. isn't necessarily an abstraction of actual biochemistry.  There is no analogue to citric acid.  There are no explicit nitrogen cycles.  It's purely an absraction of what biochemistry inherantly does, which is rearrange bits in macromolecules.

Now, as to your idea:

It's theoretically sound, assuming a very good AI model.  However you might find it to be computationally intractible.  Specifically, you'll probably be needing to do some rather intensive rigid body dynamics and collision detection, on the order of several thousand traingle primitives at least.  Due to the dynamic nature of the agents, you're not going to be able to use BSPs to simplify collision detection between agents.

And as to the "chemistry" of it, you're not really providing an energy flow, which is key to understanding the dynamics of ecosystems.  You're primarily exchanging parts between agents, which would be a kind of Mad Max system dynamic, with all the agents scavenging off each other.

It might be a good idea to provide some inherant way to simulate energy flow.  Perhaps being able to construct triangles with energy and destruct triangles into energy.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2006, 02:34:57 PM by Numsgil »

Offline Welwordion

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Thoughts about other a-life progs.
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2006, 05:30:31 AM »
I disagree with your view concerning energy. Energy simulates a limited resource orgamnism compete for,
In my idea the compettition revolves around limited number of the core parts and components of body parts.

Well if you think its still to complicated I probably have to trsut your judgement (although there mioght be some ways to simplfy that assuming less realism)

How about you? Do you have an good idea? I mean I am not trying myself as dingle hero that learns aprogramming language in order to make his dream project, I wanted to make a team project but until noe nobody besides me made any proposal concerning the basic mechanism, shape of this project.  

Offline Numsgil

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Thoughts about other a-life progs.
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2006, 12:03:52 PM »
Real ecosystems compete for limited resources in addition to energy. Energy flow helps create niches. Without nrg Darwinbots would be incapable of even supporting the two species at once (veggies and bots).

My main point is just that any project that involves programming is going to be alot of work. I devote myself rather entirely to Darwinbots and you see the speed that things happen. If you'd like to see results then, I see two primary methods you need to have:

1.  Program it in a language that allows for fast development.  Either C# or VB or something like that.

2.  Use 3rd party libraries for as many things as possible (especially physics).

Also, you might have to settle for something that is discrete ie: grid based.  Not necessarily CA though.
 
 Here's a forest simulator I made during high school.  It took about a week and a half (maybe more, I can't remember exactly) of thought and effort to program.  T means tree.  s means seed.  $ means a tree with a seed underneath it.
 
  I can also upload a faster version if you're interested, but the faster version is almost too fast, it's hard to see anything.
 
I don't mean to be discouraging.  If you're interested in making your own simulation great!  But don't underestimate the amount of work you're talking about.  Realize that, generally speaking, anyone who can program has their own projects already and you'll need a fairly complete program before you can lure existing programmers to help you.  Sort of a catch-22 isn't it


If you do finish something I'll give you web space for it if you like.  The more good ALife programs out there the more we benefit from each other.