Author Topic: Other artificial life games  (Read 6524 times)

Offline D34D

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Other artificial life games
« on: February 22, 2006, 08:21:23 PM »
hey does anyone know some other artificial life games?
ive been looking here for links and only found 1 link to another sort like game,
to my suprise I did not found any of the creature series :o (or I havn't looked good enough).
its also with evolving and mutating creatures(pets),it does look abit childish but then again it looks way beter then darwinbots :rolleyes: , there is a free download version of it
maybe that you guys will like this one.. or not ;)

http://www.gamewaredevelopment.co.uk/ds/ds...id=542_0_16_0_C
you can download it there, you do need a registration to go online.
also iff you like the idea but you think DS is way to small , you should know there tons of downloads for free (3th party,fan made)

please try and tell iff you like it or not
peace

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2006, 09:00:09 PM »
I DLed the docking station a few months back.  Creatures definately has its interesting points, but it uses a neural net to simulate its creatures, whereas we use a DNA program.  They are different beasts, and there are advantages and disadvantages to both, but all in all I think Darwinbots is a more sophisticated program.

I maintain a small list of Artificial Life simulations on wikipedia: here.

Offline Elite

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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2006, 05:33:08 AM »
There's one called bitozoa that's neural-net based.

And there's darwin pond and gene pool, which are kinda based on the effects of sexual reproduction and the physics of swimming.

Eden, which I haven't played and only just found now.


None of these is as open-ended and complex as Darwinbots


Quote
then again it looks way beter then darwinbots
I disagree. Darwinbots is way better (and is only going to get better) - you've just got to get used to it. Is there anything in particular you don't like about DB?

Offline Old Henk

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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2006, 01:41:48 PM »
I really like docking station :)
I'm dusting off my old creatures 3 CD, gonna play it once more!

Offline D34D

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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2006, 07:26:25 PM »
thanks a lot for the list and links to other similar games:D will keep me busy for a while

@Elite
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QUOTE (D34D @ Feb 22 2006, 07:21 PM)
then again it looks way beter then darwinbots

I disagree. Darwinbots is way better (and is only going to get better) - you've just got to get used to it. Is there anything in particular you don't like about DB?

I ment the graphics, thats what you look at ;) but there is something I dont like about DB and thats that the animals reproduce very fast and kinda over populate the world and crash the game after 11 hours, I have not discoverd everything in the game yet but its not such a bad game  :)

@Henk
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I really like docking station smile.gif
I'm dusting off my old creatures 3 CD, gonna play it once more!
heh iff you really needed to whipe the dust off you should try the new creatures and metarooms:)
have a look here http://creatures.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page

Offline Endy

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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2006, 10:07:02 PM »
We could use some sort of more balanced nrg in/out and decay system. The bots need enough to expand their species and make up for most losses. On the flip side they shouldn't keep getting nrg, more or less indefinitly and should more realistically deteriorate during their lives.

The nearly bug free vers should address most of the issues. IMO the buggiest part left are the repulsion fields, bot placement controls, and ties in torroidal mode. These just don't obey even vaguely normal laws in high density populations and are bound to breakdown after awhile. Basically stuff isn't "smushing" and moving right. Unfortunatly this is also the hardest stuff to program, so will be some time in fixing.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2006, 10:07:57 PM by Endy »

Offline Endy

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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2006, 11:30:15 PM »
Found this while looking through some of the links, any use?

chem calculator

Horray! Found a free official version of VB 2005. Coolest thing Microsoft is giving this VB express away :D  Perhaps I can address some of the problems above myself  ^_^
« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 02:08:24 AM by Endy »

Offline PurpleYouko

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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2006, 08:42:16 AM »
Does it come with the MSDN help files?
That is the main problem with the freebe version on our download site. No help file.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Endy

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« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2006, 11:46:21 PM »
It's online somewhere I'll check around when I get back to Hawaii in a few weeks or so.

Offline EricL Newbie

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« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2006, 02:56:16 PM »
Microsoft's .NET Terrarium could be considerred an ALife game/program.  It was supposed to be a tool to help people learn C# and .NET Programming and showcase the ability to safly run sandboxed code written by others.  It allows people to build their own organisms and have them compete in a peer-peer environment with a rendeveuz server.  Mutation, selection, etc. is not part of the game, but inheritence, compitition for limited resources, and other key things are.  Lots of organism builders created their own evolutioary mechanisms but mostly it was about how smart a creature your could write.

Here is Microsoft's Terrarium Home Page

Unfortunatly, Microsoft has moved on to a new .NET sample app environment and abandonded Terrarium (without ever releasing the source, dammit) but there are still a few enthusists out there such as this guy:  Private Terrarium Server

DB architects, it is worth taking a look at Terrarium's object model.  They did a good job on some things such as species identification, handling death and reproduction and in particular, the peer-peer environment and 'teleporter' based exchange of organisms between user machines.

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2006, 03:46:32 PM »
I'll definately give it a look.  If there are any specific things you've learned from Terrarium that you think are superior to DB's current way of working I'd love to hear them.

So much of the code is just picking a way of doing something, without necessarily searching for the "best" way to do something.

Offline EricL Newbie

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« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2006, 06:45:13 PM »
I will be happy to do so once I am up to speed on DB.  As this is day 2 for me, I still don't know what I don't know and don't want to spew until I perhaps have some sort of clue what I'm talking about.  But I will certainly write something up within a few weeks.

-E

Offline Numsgil

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« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2006, 06:56:50 PM »
Quote
As this is day 2 for me...
No excuse :P

Offline Endy

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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2006, 03:56:00 AM »
Microsoft's .NET Terrarium

Looks pretty interesting. I'll see about downloading it sometime.

Does look even trying to mutate the code would be a serious problem though. Perhaps via their birth memory it'd be somewhat possible, but it'd be really tricky.

Offline EricL Newbie

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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2006, 12:20:42 PM »
Yea, Terrarium provides an environment for people to incorporate mutation into their organisms - to pass to descendents mutated vaules that can be used to create *behavioural* diversity in descendents - and then allow for compition for limited resoruces between organisms with these different behaviours to select for the most fit, but what's in the genome, the mutation of the genome and the wiring of the genome to the behaviours must be completely written by the organism author.  Terrarium provides no built in evolutionary mechanims other than the environment itself and organims basics such as a notion of species and the ability for parents to pass on data to their offspring.  What is in that data and how it is used is completely organism specific.  In effect, the concept of inheritable genes, mutation of those genes and the effect of those genes on behaviour must be wired in by the author.

Most people who write a Terrarium creature never mutate it.  They just code for the behaviour they want.   Each organimsm generation is generally identical to the last for most creatures.  Again, it's not really ALife focused but rather focused on learning C#.  You can use use it for ALife experiments - I have - and the guy who wrote most of the code (MitchW at Microsoft) has a soft spot for ALife, but its not really the focus.

One of my biggest complaints about Terrarium from an ALife perspective is that many of the fundemental organism traits are immutable compile time constants that cannot be changed from within the creature code.  Attributes such as eyesight radius, energy, size, eating speed, attack points and defense points are compile time only (authors allocate 100 points between these attributes and once they do so, there is no way to change them in the code).  This limits what is within evolution's ability to effect I.e. once a big carnivore that moves slow and can't see well, always a big carnivore that moves slow and can't see well...

One thing I like about Terrarium is the peer-peer environment.  It's easy to see how many other user machines are conencted to the same Terrarium server, how many total organims there are in the distributed environment, of which species, which creatures are doing the best from a population and number of generations perspectives and so on.  Microsoft used to run contests and give away Xboxes for acheiving certain population numbers.  It's also great fun to watch as new creatues get teleported into your Terrarium, which can often act as a local ecosystem.  A cool thing I've seen when there are sophisticated organims that cooperate with others of the same species (to gang up on preditors for example) is that different Terrarium clients connected to the same server can become local ecosystems (because the teleporter is hidden, it is quite difficult for organimsms to migrate to other terrariums in mass, thus they are often outnumbered when enterring a new Terrarium - the local residents can gang up on what might otherwise be a more successful organism, allowing weaker (but still pretty smart) species to preserve their turf) with different species mixes and different dominant species in each.  You can actually watch your organims cooperate to defend their home against randomly teleported intruders...  

I have had fun passing on genes that can impact behavoir within the constraints of the system e.g. when do I run from carnivores - at what distance, when they have what energy level, what about when I see more ethan one, etc.   You can successfully use mutation and selection to add flexability to an explicitly written organism, changing some behaviours as new organisms are authored and introduced for example, but only a limited distance in the organism space from the base phenotype.  It's great fun for coders to compete and has a nice UI and distributed architecture, but its not as flexable or as ALife focused as DB when it comes to evolving.

-E