Author Topic: Phagocytosis  (Read 17924 times)

Offline Numsgil

  • Administrator
  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 7742
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« on: October 25, 2005, 04:40:39 PM »
Since 2.4 has more dynamic sizes, I think a limited form of phagocytosis (that is, larger cells ingesting smaller cells) is feasible.

I just don't know what sorts of rules should govern it.  Eating a veg whole is in many ways obviously better than eating it bit by bit over many cycles.

Maybe eating it all at once like that gives you heart burn... Or indigestion... or   :puke:

Offline PurpleYouko

  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2005, 05:06:44 PM »
You just can't leave it alone can you?

Every opportunity you just have to put it in.  :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: October 25, 2005, 05:06:54 PM by PurpleYouko »
There are 10 kinds of people in the world
Those who understand binary.
and those who don't

:D PY :D

Offline Numsgil

  • Administrator
  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 7742
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2005, 05:08:38 PM »
Yeah, I'm shameless.  Consider it a character flaw.

Offline Griz

  • Bot Overlord
  • ****
  • Posts: 608
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2005, 05:25:02 PM »
Quote
Yeah, I'm shameless.  Consider it a character flaw.
oh.
I just thought you puked a lot. ;)
不知
~griz~
[/color]
   "The selection of Random Numbers is too important to be left to Chance"
The Mooj  a friend to all humanity
[/color]

Offline shvarz

  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1341
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2005, 05:54:11 PM »
I actually was thinking along the same lines.  How about DNA command for forming a "mouth" on one of the four sides?  You mentioned before about the possibility of distributing shell differentially to front, sides and back.  How about allowing "mouth" to form on one of the sides as well.  The limits would be that you can't form mouth where a lot of shell is and you can't shoot particles from that direction.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid things in big numbers" - Serious Sam

Offline Numsgil

  • Administrator
  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 7742
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2005, 07:10:27 PM »
That sounds reasonable.

Should a cell being ingested be able to fight back?  Maybe cells so eaten are only slowly digested (lose nrg and body).  In the mean time, if it's alive, it can fire shots at you (and would be hard pressed to miss I imagine) tie to you, etc.

That would encourage bots to kill its prey then eat the corpse.

Offline Numsgil

  • Administrator
  • Bot God
  • *****
  • Posts: 7742
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2005, 07:14:55 PM »
And along much the same lines, endosymbiosis (bots learning to live and survive inside a larger bot) follows along the same lines.

Of course, the eating cell would have to decide not to eat what's in it's stomach.

Offline Old Henk

  • Bot Destroyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2005, 03:41:49 AM »
Quote
And along much the same lines, endosymbiosis (bots learning to live and survive inside a larger bot) follows along the same lines.

Of course, the eating cell would have to decide not to eat what's in it's stomach.
That would give a new dimension to MB's, I think. I love it!  ^_^

Offline Ulciscor

  • Bot Destroyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2005, 04:01:42 AM »
Oh dear God this will complicate things so much.

Maybe a bot in another bot's stomach can resist digestion by having more body points? Maybe it can shoot its way out? Doesn't seem right to me though. Surely when a cell engulfs another cell its bye bye for good? Unless a new defense is introduced for bots...

Symbiosis/parasitism?! Awesome idea. Going to take a lot of thinking through though...
:D Ulciscor :D

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Offline Greven

  • Bot Destroyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2005, 05:52:03 AM »
Quote
Unless a new defense is introduced for bots...
And new and artificial rules! DB will be so complicate in the end, that it will be impossible for a human mind to grasp an entire bot (which is both good and bad depende on who you ask, not much fun in evolving a bot and then you can't decipher what is does., but still interesting.)

I think if we add this, the shoot cabability should be removed! It is very artificial, and I think we can come up with something more in line with reality or what?
10010011000001110111110100111011001101100100000110110111000011101011110010110000
011000011000001100010110010111101001110100110010111100101000001000001111001011101
001101001110011011010011100011110100111000011101100100000100110011010011100110110
010110000011100111101001110110111101011101100110000111101001101001110111111011101
01100100000111010011010001100001110111010000010001001000010100001

Offline Ulciscor

  • Bot Destroyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2005, 05:58:50 AM »
I totally agree (sort of). Hehe.

Shooting is artificial if we think of it as bots firing projectiles at other bots but makes some sense perhaps if we instead imagine them as streams of enzyme-like substances being ejected.

I also agree that adding a new defense will be artificial; instead the current features should be adapted to suit. Slime currently resists the entry of viruses; could it maybe be expanded to prevent/deter bots from eating their target?
:D Ulciscor :D

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Offline Greven

  • Bot Destroyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2005, 06:01:22 AM »
No more rules! Let the bot them self find out...
(HINT: We find a way so the bots them self can find out, without introducing new artificial rules)

What I mean is DB already has 100's of rules.
This is want Griz is against.

Please think about... (THINK THINK THINK) Every time we add a new feature to DB, we add 1 rule, and 10 other rules so the new rule can cope with the older rules... Please lets think about this. I think DB needs a major overhaul some places. Lets start to make an enviroment the bots can live in. With substances, maybe only a few to start with, and the we can expand this later on, to see if we really what it in this way and then -> we get better simulations.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 06:02:35 AM by Greven »
10010011000001110111110100111011001101100100000110110111000011101011110010110000
011000011000001100010110010111101001110100110010111100101000001000001111001011101
001101001110011011010011100011110100111000011101100100000100110011010011100110110
010110000011100111101001110110111101011101100110000111101001101001110111111011101
01100100000111010011010001100001110111010000010001001000010100001

Offline Ulciscor

  • Bot Destroyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2005, 06:06:00 AM »
You have to introduce rules at some point. As [PY] said before you can't just have a complex system emerge from a totally lawless (as in without rules) system. I agree that the fewer laws you impose the more interesting and unpredictable the resulting system can be but you still need rules to start with.
:D Ulciscor :D

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Offline Greven

  • Bot Destroyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2005, 06:08:22 AM »
Quote
Shooting is artificial if we think of it as bots firing projectiles at other bots but makes some sense perhaps if we instead imagine them as streams of enzyme-like substances being ejected.

Good point, I have never thought about it that way.

Quote
also agree that adding a new defense will be artificial; instead the current features should be adapted to suit. Slime currently resists the entry of viruses; could it maybe be expanded to prevent/deter bots from eating their target?

Precise, the breaking of older bots, can be the result, but then again, DB is evolving to, and can not continue to keep its junk code forever, now we need a new generation of bots!

Quote
You have to introduce rules at some point. As [PY] said before you can't just have a complex system emerge from a totally lawless (as in without rules) system. I agree that the fewer laws you impose the more interesting and unpredictable the resulting system can be but you still need rules to start with.

No that is logic, something can not emerge from nothing! No genesis!, and I did not say I were against rules, just that we have to many rules of a sort. But chaos theory say that complex system's emerge from simple rules. Like Conway's Game of Life, 3 very simple rules, have giving rise to AND-GATES, NOT- and OR-gates, from rules, which have nothing to do with LOGIC! Even a sort of replicating patterns, which can make a sort of reproducing (I mean multiply, become more,
1->2->4->8 etc)

Look that is emergent behavior that screams to heaven! Chaos theory is roughly about study complex systems and find the underlying [span style=\'font-size:21pt;line-height:100%\'](simple)[/span] rules.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 06:17:20 AM by Greven »
10010011000001110111110100111011001101100100000110110111000011101011110010110000
011000011000001100010110010111101001110100110010111100101000001000001111001011101
001101001110011011010011100011110100111000011101100100000100110011010011100110110
010110000011100111101001110110111101011101100110000111101001101001110111111011101
01100100000111010011010001100001110111010000010001001000010100001

Offline Ulciscor

  • Bot Destroyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Phagocytosis
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2005, 06:28:38 AM »
Well I think it's just to make it easier to understand for people. If you have too few rules then the resulting behaviour that emerges is unpredictable, and it's harder to get the environment with the rules you want. Adding artificial rules gives restrictions on the behaviour that can emerge.
:D Ulciscor :D

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.