Darwinbots Forum
Code center => Suggestions => Topic started by: Zelos on October 13, 2005, 11:59:23 AM
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With planet eater mode bots adept to changing gravity. But wouldnt it be fun with a mode simular to it but instant of mass it uses charges? like a bot can charge it self negative wich protect it from other negative bots but is the attracted to posetive ones?
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Hey maybe they can even attack others with bot-lightning bolts :D
Just imagine the One with a tazer :wacko:
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good idea.
a bot could have somekinda command like .charge and then it store the amount of charges. if it has -5 in charge and then stores +5 then it shall become neutral.
but to the attack, we could have 2 "electric attack" commands, one that fire of the electric a path infron of it, like a ligtning, the greater the charge the creater it go, of course it gets weaker with the distance. and another one that fire it just around it, so if someone hits the bot it fire it of and they all gets paralyzed for X cycles. the same with the lightning attack, it paralyses.
And how good it travel is decieded also by how salt the liquid is. (have forgoten the nicer scientific name of it)
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And how good it travel is decieded also by how salt the liquid is. (have forgoten the nicer scientific name of it)
Paraphrased
How far the electricity can travel is determined by the salinity (conductivity) of the medium through which it travels. :)
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Yeah, wouldn't be terribly difficult to set up a superset of planet eaters mode that uses charges.
I'm not so sure about an actual electric attack though.
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the attack is 2nd hand, I just want in first hand the forces electricity creates with coulumbs law.
K(Q1)(Q2)/r^2
Q=charge
K=conastant
R=distance
the charge can be darwinistic, wich mean w dont use coulumbs as charge, we can call it darge (combination of DARwin and cARGE)
and K can we change like the gravity constant on PE mode. that would be very fun see bots begining to create electric fields, then a plant can create a field around it thats negative so it pushes bots away, but then the other vegs "discover" that its good following it so they do the same, and then the hunters discover that its good to be posetive now so they change as well. it doesnt need to happen like this, but maybe something like this can be arranged.
nums, is it easy to create the electric force thing and charge storing?
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What are the units for a Coloumb? I sort have a custom metric system in DB devised from twips and nrg.
It's really very easy. Should be able to use most of the same code as Planet Eaters.
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good good. a coulumd is the unit of charges, a electron have the charge of 1,602177*10^(-19)C
2 objects with one Coulumb in charge at a distance between them of 1 meter will give force of 8987742438 newtons
so a coulumb is a huge unit of it.
but you difen a coulumb as the charge that passes trough a wire withc 1 Ampere when one second have passed.
while we at it, why not magnetism aswell?
in this case the K=4(pi)×10^(−7)N/A² (exactly).
there the formula for Force is
F=(m1)(m2)/(K*r^2)
m stands for magnetic flux not mass
and K is a konstant that I told up there.
magnetic flux is the amount of magnetic flux density timres the area, with other words, Tesla*Meter²
but if the bots should be able to be permenent magnets or temporarly when they charge I dont know.
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Woah, woah, one thing at a time, one thing at a time.
What should the unit for charge be in DB? Obviously not Coloumb.
We should define 1 of whatever this is to be such that the force between points of equal unit charge 1 twip from each other is 1 Darwin. This will still make units quite large (bots are ordinarilly 120 twips across).
Um, Darwin = constant * (unit charge) ^2 / 1 twip ^2
set constant = 1 for the description of the unit, and we get a good definition for this charge unit.
Now we just have to name it.
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darge?
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The Numsgil would be an excellent choice, I think. We can introduce the Youko as well.
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Hmm, multiple forces, with different formulas, that can be repulsive or attractive
and can be linked to certain conditions. Be positive if, be negative if , be zero if.
Would be fun, I already thought it might be good to have a close range force that prevents planet eaters to totally collapse within themself.
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We can introduce the Youko as well.
HA!! Electrons with fox ears? Now that would be cool. B)
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naming units in db after ppl here is just silly if you ask me. name after real famous persons. or maybe name it after we put 2 words toghater it gets more persinal to our program
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naming units in db after ppl here is just silly if you ask me. name after real famous persons.
or maybe name it after we put 2 words toghater it gets more persinal to our program
you mean Numsgil and Youko are not famous?!?!?!
well ... perhaps not yet. ;)
~griz~
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Hey come on Zelos
I DO have about 50 published research papers under my belt.
I guess not many people read research papers on Laser Ablation Inductively Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry analysis of Archeological Artifacts. :(
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I sure do!
It's bed time reading. Puts me right out. :P
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Here's an overview of the current unit/labels used for physics: (this may change in the next few days, I've noticed a logical error in my physics system (doesn't effect any code though, just the labels)
Bang - Either energy or Impulse, I'm having trouble deciding
Cycle - Time unit
Twip - Distance
Darwin - Force
Mass - Mass (yeah, kinda unoriginal :P)
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PurpleYouko, you might have that and then im impressed. But still ure not as famous as einstein, newton, beethoven, and stephen hawking. they are famous. im glad I have something common with the first 3.
I know I sound like an old disc that is repeating, but what about darge? it contain darwin in it and is kinda obvius ^_^
or what abouyt "charles"? its after darwin even more.
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Can't say I really want to be famous actually. If I was then everybody would always be expecting too much of me so I wouldn't get time to mess about with DB.
That would be sad. :(
It's bad enough now. I have been franically scrabbling about all week to get a presentation ready for a conference in Arizona in Januarry. The deadline is today and I have only just this minute finished typing up the paper. :wacko:
Feeling a bit frazzled right about now.
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I like Charles. Not a big fan of Darge.
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I rather have charles as well
"hi bot felows, this is a posetive day for me, im acctualy 5 charles posetive" ;)
but a question, I like magnetism, can I get the honor to name its unit? in db I mean.
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I guess so. I have no objections.
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:D is there anyonw who have obecjtions?
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Too much vb for Zelos, he is beginning to write like me. :D
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Too much vb for Zelos, he is beginning to write like me. biggrin.gif
oh no! you mean it's contageous?!?! :lol:
made me smile, Bots ... good one.
~griz~
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Zelos has a good excuse though, he doesn't livein the US or UK, or any other natively English speaking locale.
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Zelos has a good excuse though, he doesn't livein the US or UK, or any other natively English speaking locale.
no slam on Zelos there ...
just happy to see Bots making a joke and laughing at himself.
I thought that was pretty funny.
I only speak english ...
(and have lapses even there) ...
and still stuggle to write/read chinese after 30 years. ;)
so my hat is off to anyone who is able to communicate in
any language that is not their native tongue.
that is a big part of what I love about the internet ...
meeting folks from all around the world ...
coming together to share a common interest ...
be it to talk programming or raytacing or philosophy or
religion or music or making beer or ....
what have you ...
tearing down those barriers that out 'leaders' and politicians
like to erect between all us real folks out here.
power to the people! ;)
~griz~
(an old 60's hippie who survived to tell the tale) :lol:
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What I like even better: that everyone else is learning my language, so I don't have to learn theirs!
Hehe. *Waits for flame war*
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ok, what did I say wrong? I rather have my self corrected then joking about it, cause then I get higher grades in english ^_^
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ok, what did I say wrong? I rather have my self corrected then koking about it, cause then I get higher grades in english ^_^
nothing I know of ... you'll have to ask Bots.
~griz~
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You're taking grammer criticism from Bots?
Hehe.
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no, I rather take it from you
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Other than lack of capitalization, and sometimes paragraph breaks, you're pretty good.
And some annyoing AOL speak, like "you" instead of "you", but that's more a personal pet peeve.
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Yea exsept my screen reads "anyonw" instead of "anyone" in your lest post Zelos. Was it just me?
begin: clearify referance
is there anyonw who have obecjtions?
/end clearify referance
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yeah, you is easier then you, thats y I use you instant of you ;) but aint we getting off topic?
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Yeah, so far off topic.
lol.
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so lets get back to subject
ure gonna add electricity mode?
and can we later also have magnetism? like when a bot build up charge it creates a temporarly magnetic field. and with that we can make so iron (in mebo system) is magnetic so a bot who build up charge can attract iron to it. a funny little way of collecting iron dont you think?
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Yeah, but I'll have to go relearn alot about all that stuff. It's been a looong time.
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what do you mean relearn? re learn what? maybe I can help if it aint about programming.
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Well, I remember something about how a moving charged particle creates a magnetic field, but a stationary one doesn't. Things like that.
I have my phyiscs book (parents just mailed it to me) so it just means me sitting down for liek 3 hours and reading it.
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magnetism and electrical object moving in it? the formula is:
F= QVB
q is the charge
f is force
v is velocity (relative to the object, it can be the magnet that moves and not the particle)
And B is thr strengh of the magnetic field, SI unit is Tesla wich is a very huge unit. I think that earth magnetic field dont reach 1 Tesla. Anyhow but iron isnt electrical (if it isnt ionized) but it can be magnetic, that means the spin of the atoms is in the same direction so they increase each other.
Nums when it comes to physic I know alot, I´ll gladly help, I can almost (if not) all standard formulas in my head.
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Yeah, that all sounded familiar ;)
I'll go read up on it later today.
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I looked on wiki and I found on the article the highers value where 60 micro tesla on earth that is
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but that is only if the particle goes 90° relative to the field, else we gotta add sin X where X is the relative angel to the field
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I was just thinking: If we get a pritty realistic electric model going then we can model some pritty realistic neural networks, Its going to be almost the same as the real thing.
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We can model neural networks already, it's just v. complex....
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Um, you don't need electricity to model neural networks. The two are quite unrelated.
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Key word: realisitc nerual networks...
The human brain works on electrsity for all I know...
It's just an idea I put up there , just in case...
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Yes the human brain works on electrical impulses but they are a secondary function.
The brain learns by making new physical connections between neurons. The electricity is just the messenger that carries bits of information down the connection.
It isn't necessary to have any laws of electricity present to model neural nets. It is far easier to completely ignore the electricity.
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Technically it's not electricity. It's potassium ions I think. Anyway, much different but still related to what we think of as electricity.
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Well electricity itself isn't what most people think it is. B)
It's amazing how few people really know what it is.
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Electricity is the passing of electrons (tiny tiny quanta of energy) via excited charged conductive particles, generally metals such as iron, etc.
Our brains pass potassium positive ions (if not potassium, then maybe sodium), which are much, much, much larger than electrons, and have the oppositive charge.
The effect is indeed the transmitance of charges. But the mechanisms are so entirely different.
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but cause its electrical charged it is effected by "normal" electricity and magnetism, parts that have been badly hurt are acctualy able to repair it self in a increadeble rate, it aint that much but huge for the brain, when its stimualted by magnetism.
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Um, I'm going to say that's a load of horse hooey.
All that new age magnets-around-my-wrist things are just bull. There has not been any scientific study able to link magnetism/electrical fields and physiological effects. (Except for that electromagnet at Fermilab, Illinois, which can produce a field strong enough to pull the iron from your blood. That one definately has some physiological effects.)
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haha, I like that one.
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this has been scientifical studies about this, they took away parts of a rats brain, and after it exposes it for magnetic fields and then they open him again and saw that the body have repaired some of the damages the removal of the part caused, and usualy brain dont repair it self
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Primary research does not scientific fact make (odd grammer composition on purpose, I realize that may look a little strange on paper...)
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Primary research does not scientific fact make (odd grammer composition on purpose, I realize that may look a little strange on paper...)
nor is something not true simply because we don't yet know about it.
we don't know what we don't know.
remember ...
the earth was once flat and the sun revolved around us. ;)
discoveries are made when one is able to suspend one's disbelief
long enough to take a look at what one doesn't already 'know'.
knowledge is not static, but a dynamic, ever expanding process.
conjecture, speculation, theories ...
are only tools ...
maps that are subject to being rewritten ...
menus that will be altered.
our perception of reality is no more than soup de jour. ;)
true scientific method of inquiry ...
is about remaining as open/flexible/malleable/adaptable as possible ...
'especially' when we begin to think we 'know'.
~griz~
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its not a fact, but it see, to happen all the time, but who cares. and griz ure im begging you stop wrting like that, it hurts the eyes. AAAAH M Y EYES!!!
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I'm slow to change what I think is true/untrue. If someone could show me an overwhelming amount of evidence that magnetic fields alter the brain/body, I'd believe it.
In the mean time, I still say it's Horse Hooey.
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its not a fact, but it see, to happen all the time, but who cares. and griz ure im begging you stop wrting like that, it hurts the eyes. AAAAH M Y EYES!!!
not gonna happen dude ...
you'll have to deal with is. ;)
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I'm slow to change what I think is true/untrue. If someone could show me an overwhelming amount of evidence that magnetic fields alter the brain/body, I'd believe it.
In the mean time, I still say it's Horse Hooey.
understood ...
and it may very well be.
I'm only saying that the more certain one is of their 'beliefs' ...
the more preconceptions/assumptions one entertains ...
[be it in science or life in general]
the less open one will be to new possibilities ...
and the more one will miss/overlook.
that's just how it works.
there are many examples in science and the models we
considered to be absolutely 'true' at one time.
so I find it best to not call anything Horse Hooey ...'
and also to not take anything as gospel ...
to maintain a healthy skepticism ...
while remaining open to new possibilities.
it's a matter of finding a good balance.
as an aside ...
good scientific inquiry should consider 'Ockam's Razor' as well ...
the idea that if one is confronted with a choice of two equally valid
alternatives, to take the simpler' ... the reason being that humans
are prone to error ... and by taking the simpler alternative ...
one also reduces the chance of compounding errors ...
iow ... between two theories that can explain the same phenomena,
the theory with the fewest assumptions is to be preferred.
but hey ...
almost any inquiry is good and leads to something. ;)
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I tend to be open to most things, but the magnetism things reminds me too much of the cancer scare a few years ago from the magnetic fields of cell phones...
I just can't take it seriously. :P
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it doesnt alter the brain, it stimulate it so it is able to repair it self better than it should if it werent stimulated.
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I've googled around a bit and it appears we humans can take quite a lot of magnetics.
Effects appear when people are around 4T coils. That's a lot, considering the Earth's magnetic field is 3.1×10-5 T strong (at the equator)
Source (http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/oct2001/1002835274.Me.r.html)
Another source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_%28unit%29)
Henk :)
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a tesla is indead a huge unit. but still there exist magnetets more powerful than that´in the universe.
like magnetars. they can have a magnetic field of 10 gigateslas. that us HUGE. its strong enough to wipe out a credit card half the way between earth/moon.
But yeah we can take alot of magnetism. Basacly cause the amount of electricity in the body aint that great. So it doesnt create alot of magnetic fields. But the brain is stimulated, thats different.
And nums, I dont tell things I havent read about.
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and remember ...
we evloved IN this environment ...
magnetic fields, cosmic radiation and all.
for all we know ... outside of it, we may not function well or long. ;)
zelos ...
I see you were able to upload a couple of pics to the new wiki.
but it appears the upload page is not activated.
how did you do so? can you let Nums/us know? ...
as he was asking.
see http://www.darwinbots.com/WikiManual/index...lk:Introduction (http://www.darwinbots.com/WikiManual/index.php?title=Talk:Introduction)
tanks