Darwinbots Forum
Code center => Suggestions => Topic started by: Botsareus on September 24, 2005, 10:44:24 AM
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PY quote:
I don't favor getting rid of it. Blocking has its place in the scheme of things.
Fixpos and fixed are going to be combined to save sysvar space but blocked (as an option and as a possibility) must stay.
I totaly agree that blocked as an option and as possibility must stay.
The same way the e-grid can be set up to favor plants. Instead of artifisialy checking the "plants" checkbox.
The e-grid must be able to set up to to favor blocked plants (or blocked robots If not too sifiesh). I beleave there must be a more natural reason for somthing to become blocked: "Like the only way for photosinthise to accure is for a plant to be attched to soil" (But if we model it on a molecular level, on the other hand, then our plants our allergy getting minerals from water and do not need to be blocked)
I am not sure how to work out the complete model, I leave that to our biologists, but you get the idea.
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We could have an absorption rate from the Egrid gradually increase as a bot doesn't move. This would be analogous to growing roots. Problem is this means we would need to set some sort of absorption rate formula for bots based on speed, length of time not moving, etc.
Either way, I'm not touching the blocked veggies control for 2.4
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good ... atleast you are considering it. When we get to the e-grid at all.~ ...
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Like the only way for photosinthise to accure is for a plant to be attched to soil
That would be totally unrealistic, because most of the plants on our planet are not attached to soil.
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???
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Specifically Algae, is what shvarz is referring to.
And the giant floating plants like in Cowboy Bepop that hang above Venus. He's talking about those too.
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But what If you want to model trees?
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Then you find some other reason why they should be fixed. It's not inconcievable that ground plants could have just become a large floor covering of moss.
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Then you find some other reason why they should be fixed.
and what does moss have to do with this? I dont get it all: What other ways?
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And the giant floating plants like in Cowboy Bepop that hang above Venus. He's talking about those too.
And duck weed (http://www.mobot.org/jwcross/duckweed/duckweed.htm)and water hyacinths (http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/hyacin2.html)and so on.
There are tons of plants that aren't rooted. What about the symbiotic Xooxanthellae that live in the bodies of some Sea Slugs (http://www.seaslugforum.net/factsheet.cfm?base=solarpow) or corals.
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and what does moss have to do with this? I dont get it all: What other ways?
Okay, most areas with lots of plants have trees.
Now, trees aren't the only method of plants possible. There are many non-tree plants. We've named some already. For my example, let's take moss.
Now, moss is a plant. It is not impossible that at some point in the past, trees weren't around. At such a time, it's also probable that you had something like moss all over the land instead of trees. Moss isn't particularly rooted. It can pretty much grow on top of rocks and things with like a quarter inch of dust on them.
Other plants don't even need that. Most water plants are free floating. Hence: rooted is not a requisite for plants, hence trees are not rooted because they need to be to perform photosynthesis, hence modeling trees by requiring they be rooted to perform photosynthesis isn't correct.
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Hence: rooted is not a requisite for plants, hence trees are not rooted because they need to be to perform photosynthesis, hence modeling trees by requiring they be rooted to perform photosynthesis isn't correct.
That would be all good but what if I wanted to model "realistic trees" not "imaginary trees" that are: "not rooted because they need to perform photosynthesis"
(I probebly will have to wait for the 3D virsion... :( )
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I agree that "trees don't have to attach to earth to photosynthsize". In fact, they don't have to attach to earth at all. I am sure that if trees could keep their root system AND move around, they would certainly do that. Bots, trees being unable to move is a side effect, not a cause of being a tree. So making rules like "you have to fixpos to be able to photosynthesize" is not realistic.
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I agree Shvartz, thats why we have to model realistic effect.
were the hell did you guys get the idea that I was intending to use fixpos? Trees with graby arms wth?
I know:
Then you find some other reason why they should be fixed.
fixed <> using fixpos my fault...
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Blocked veggies are essentially fixed. Same mechanism applies I believe. Blocked veggies might even register .fixed as 1. You may even be able to unfix them with an info shot (0 .shootval store .fixpos .shoot store)
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Hence: rooted is not a requisite for plants, hence trees are not rooted because they need to be to perform photosynthesis, hence modeling trees by requiring they be rooted to perform photosynthesis isn't correct.
That would be all good but what if I wanted to model "realistic trees" not "imaginary trees" that are: "not rooted because they need to perform photosynthesis"
(I probebly will have to wait for the 3D virsion... :( )
That's a logical inconsistancy with your previous statements.
You're basically saying:
"what if I wanted to model realistic trees that are not rooted because they need to perform photosynthesis?"
But being rooted does not prevent trees from performing photosynthesis. You've in fact been espousing the opposite, that being rooted exclusively implies the ability to photosynthesize.
Perhaps you meant "What if I wanted to model imaginary trees that must be rooted to perfom photosynthesis?"
Then the answer would be "why do you want to model such a system?" If the answer to that was interesting enough, we'd add such a distinction to the veggy feed rate.
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It might make more sense for plants to root themselves if more requirements for photosynthesis come online. A "tree" that takes waste that collects in the bottom and sun from above would be logical enough. Currently the vegs only need sun so they can fix/root themselves at the highest point and gain nrg that way. (Quite often annoying the crap out of me by killing off my bots below. <_< )
The high percent repro does the trick pretty well for tied sharer's allowing them to produce "branches" in something resembling a fractal pattern.
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Well, natural photosynthesis just needs water, CO2, and light. But I can see your point. Hmm, I'm not sure. Simulate some nutrients or something?
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Blocked veggies might even register .fixed as 1
Yup they do.
You may even be able to unfix them with an info shot (0 .shootval store .fixpos .shoot store)
Yup you can.
Fixpos/fixed just writes/reads a value to/from the ".fixed" boolean variable that has always been used by blocked veggies.
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I still say if we get rid of "veg" we should get rid of "blocked" as well.
A person sets up an envirment to favor plants or animals.
So a person must set up an envirment to favor fixed or unfixed plants.
A person wants to model "alaska forest" or "under solt water small scale"
He does not want to model "blocked" or "unblocked"
A person wants to model "the envirment plants live in" or the "the envirment animals live in"
Or he wants to model both so we make high resoltions and the e-grid.
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:(
But I can see your point.
thats funny endy had to post once, I have to post what 6 , 7 times? Maybe I should just go back to cosmic rift??
The difference is alragy get there nutreants from the water witch is liquid therfor they don't need to be blocked.
But plants that get there nutreants from soil witch is solid and therefor need to be blocked in order to toch the soil.
All can be done on the grid...
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Actually, I agree on this. "blocked" can be as easily (and with more precision) specified in DNA language now, so we can get rid of "blocked" option in menu. Less options - less clutter.(http://img13.echo.cx/img13/8421/face081qz.gif)
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Bots. Are you talking about getting rid of the "Blocked" option from the control panel or getting rid of all robot's ability to fix their position from their own (or an attacker's) DNA.
If the former then I agree. I am with Shvarz on this. The option in the setup page is pointless.
If the latter then I disagree completely. Robots (both animal and vegatable) need to be able to lock themselves in place from DNA.
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lol, god dam it man - I am talking about the:
getting rid of the "Blocked" option from the control panel
:rolleyes:
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Good then we are on the same page then.
Dump it I say! :lol:
If you want to use a blocked veggie then make a version which blocks itself from its DNA.
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thats funny endy had to post once, I have to post what 6 , 7 times? Maybe I should just go back to cosmic rift??
No, you don't need to go back to the cosmic rift :) I think you just need to be more clear about what you're discussing sometimes.
I think we're all in agreement about removing the blocked veg's option. It's easy enough to just make a veggie that anchors itself, if that's desired.
Might be an idea to work on a new main species of veggie when the next vers is out. I'd like to see something with at least a basic body to nrg conversion ability and vice versa, so they won't die off as fast.
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Less options - less clutter.(http://img13.echo.cx/img13/8421/face081qz.gif)
Shvarz! Shhhvvaaarrrzz! has anyone seen Shvarz? You in the bag, have you seen a homer simspon look alike anywhere around here?
:P
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Bots, you were suggesting that an option be made that required plants be blocked to photosynthesize, which I disagree with.
Endy was saying he had a problem in Pond Mode with plants at the top totally cutting off plants at the bottom.
They are very similar. But I don't like either at face value. Endy's idea was that waste would be needed for photosynthesis, and thus being fixed in place at the bottom of the sim, bots could feed off of the waste of corpses, presumably. Which is a better solution that what you proposed, but still not quite there.
When I said "I can see your point", I meant just that, not that I agree with it. I can also see Bot's point that there should be some intrinsic reason why plants would want to block in some sims. I just haven't heard a good one yet.
Should I put little astericks in posts I agree with? Am I not presenting myself in a clear and concise manner?
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Might be an idea to work on a new main species of veggie when the next vers is out. I'd like to see something with at least a basic body to nrg conversion ability and vice versa, so they won't die off as fast.
Probably several. One would work wel in the standard feeding mode, one would store body so it got more nrg in the nrg/kilobody mode, etc. Maybe some pond mode plants as well.
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I need a "wavepeaceflag" smily right about now :D
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Maybe some pond mode plants as well.
I have a few of those. Everything from free floating veggies to ones that float up in the day and sink down at night. I plan to work on a plant that has roots which can feed off corpes and an upper body with branches and leaves to grab sunlight.
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Damn, that reminds me, I need to reprogram in the bouyancy controls...