Darwinbots Forum
Bots and Simulations => DNA - General => Topic started by: Ulciscor on June 23, 2005, 06:29:22 AM
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Is there a BNF or EBNF of the DNA language anywhere?
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We barely have a help menu :lol:
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Aww come on! :(
I put hours and hours into that bloody help menu then you went and added a whole bunch of new commands. <_<
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And it's much appreciated!
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I suppose you all want me to put the new stuff in there as well now?
Go on admit it!
I know you want to.
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:blueblob:
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:blueblob:
Right!
and :boing: :sad2: too
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Lmao I am guessing the answer is no then.
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Good guess! :D
Have you checked out our WIKI (http://darwinbots.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome)
There are some pretty good help articles in there and Num is gradually porting everything onto the official DarwinBots (http://www.darwinbots.com) website.
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Could we just load an external txt file into the help file? I'm guessing here but since we can load dna and view it, we should be able to do the same for the help.
Endy B)
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When I am done with exams etc. I will have a stab at writing a list of all the DNA commands and variables and examples, post it up, let people look it over and comment then redo it. Lather, rinse, repeat and a rather good help file should be made.
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Go ahead and do it via the wiki at Darwinbots.com. That should become the Main help compendium.
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Could we just load an external txt file into the help file? I'm guessing here but since we can load dna and view it, we should be able to do the same for the help.
It could be set up that way but you would have to be incredibly careful to get all the formatting just so.
When you display into a scrolling textbox like the one we use for the help file, you have to use all sorts of weird and wonderful formatting controls to keep the line spacings and lengths right. (well not that many format controls really)
Here is a small chunk of the code that generates the help file.
Help.text = ""
Help.text = Help.text + vbTab + vbTab + vbTab + vbTab + "DarwinBots V2.32beta DNA" + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + "" + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + vbTab + "This is a very brief listing of all the DNA commands and how they work" + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + vbTab + "Just to keep it interesting it is told from a robot's eye view. HeHe!" + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + "" + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + "First here is a reminder of the mathematical operators" + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + "These can only be used in the Action step of the DNA. (after START)" + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + "" + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + "add" + vbTab + "-----" + vbTab + "Adds the top two values on the stack and leaves the result on the stack" + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + vbTab + vbTab + "The original two numbers are removed." + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + vbTab + "Syntax." + vbTab + "(15 25 add) will add 15 to 25 and leave 40 on the stack" + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + "" + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + "sub" + vbTab + "-----" + vbTab + "Subtracts the top value on the stack from the second value on the stack." + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + vbTab + vbTab + "The result is left on the stack and the original two numbers are removed." + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + vbTab + "Syntax." + vbTab + "(15 25 sub) will subtract 25 from 15 and leave -10 on the stack" + vbCrLf
Help.text = Help.text + "" + vbCrLf
Please remember that this file is about 300 lines long and growing all the time.
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Would it not be easier to make an HTML help file and then use a browser component and navigate to the help file? It would be easier to do the formatting with tables etc. You could also have the possibility of linking to an online help file which could be changed frequently. But if they didn't want to have to connect to the internet the local file could be used. Or something like that anyway.
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Quite possibly so. I just haven't had time to play with it.
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Hey it would be cool to make an access database of all the commands and sysvars etc and then use VB to loop through the records and display them. It would make adding or changing commands much easier.
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Great!
Sounds cool B)
Why not make one and the add the code to implement it to the 2.37.2 source code. If it works well then we can include it in the next release.
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Is there some way I can find out the memory locations of all the sysvars?
[Edit]:
And also the help form has some registry code in it that isn't used locally... is it meant to be there?
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Is there some way I can find out the memory locations of all the sysvars?
Look in the root map of DB, it should be DarwinBotsII or something, a text file called sysvar.txt all the sysvars are listed with the memory location they corespond to.
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Thanken da!
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There should be 182 sysvars, at least at my last count.
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So I just want to say good luck with you project, but it is much needed! Maybe a database could be done here? A small program or something? I dunno.... Standalone, so you have access to it, without starting DB? Extensive help program! THIS WOULD BE VERY COOL, also from the newbies point of view, no more scary newbies :boing: :D
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That is a very good idea! I have started filling out the database now. I am thinking of adding editable queries using SQL so you can search for variables by memory location or view all math operators etc.
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I hate Access databases. :(
I would rather do everything in Excel with a bunch of VBA macros.
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:o Sacrilige! I have an obsession with making databases for pretty much everything lol. They are so neat and tidy! And they can be used for sooo many things.
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That is just the way I feel about Excel.
Although I really just use the spreadsheets as a visual interface to get into the visual basic. I more or less just store numbers in the sheets and do all the data manipulations/input/output with userforms and VB code.
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PY , I was just wandering why the .. are you writing the ingame dna help menu using code. All you have to do is in [you]design time[/you] set the text to what ever you want and will save this way.
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The propertybox is tiny though lol and I don't know if tabs will work in it.
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Simple.
To me the code makes more sense than any design time interface.
I hate to use toolboxes and stuff to do what can be done simply enough in code anyway. I have always been that way. I just like the way it flows in a logical fashion from the formatting code to the output screen.
I guess I just think in code more easily than I do in design time.
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ok sounds to me that you guys figure it out , lol.
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And also the help form has some registry code in it that isn't used locally... is it meant to be there?
No it probably doesn't need to be there at all.
When you create a new "help" or "about" form in VB it just puts all that junk there automatically.
Some is needed but most isn't so picking out the stuff to get rid of was way to much hassle.
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[PY] on my pc the help form takes about 20 seconds to load because of all the code lol.
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The propertybox is tiny though lol and I don't know if tabs will work in it.
Good point.
Just imagine trying to edit a chuffing great file like that in the property box.
It makes me shudder to think about it. :blink:
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rofl good point;
I never edit it in thouse crapy tool boxes.
I paste it into notepad , edit it , then paste it there.
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Oh my God why did I never think of that?? The hours I have been stuck peering into a tiny little property box trying to find spelling mistakes. Grrrrrr
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[PY] on my pc the help form takes about 20 seconds to load because of all the code lol.
20 seconds?????? :blink:
Bloody hell! What is your PC? a 386 or summat?
On my 700meg system it is instant.
On my 3gig system it is also instant
Adding text to a text box should be one of the fastest processes in VB. It should be able to display hundreds of thousands of lines per second.
I really don't get that. I think there must be something a little amiss with your PC.
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I'm on a 3.2Gig system. Which is slightly worrying.
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I paste it into notepad , edit it , then paste it there.
I guess that works too. Formatting sucks in notepad though. Half the time the spaces disappear and the tabs screw up when you try to put it into the text box. It's just so much easier to define them all in code. Gives a much more precise control.
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fun stuff fun stuff blabla bla .... Please remember that this file is about 300 lines long and growing all the time.
I was replying to that ^
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Aaaaah! I have 2 sysvars files, neither of which are the same as the help form in DB! Which one do I use?!
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2.21 is the current one.
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Ta very much!
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OK there are some new commands I do not know and they are not in the help file (I spose those are the new commands Num made just after PY did the help file lol). Would you mind explaining them briefly and giving an example? I can guess some of them but I'd rather be sure.
.shflav, in fact all the ones starting with .sh
.velscalar, I can guess but I'd rather have a good definition lol
.bodgain & .bodlos, again I can guess but need a good answer
.thisgene ???
.vtimer,.vshoot
Sorry to be a nuisance lol.
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*.shflav returns the value of the last shot to hit the bot. So if its being shot by venom it will give you -3. Note, this doesnt reset each cycle.
*.velscalar gives you the magnitude of your velocity disregarding your heading. So you can be traveling backwards at 50 and *.velscalar will give 50 whereas *.vel will give -50. Incidently is *.velup the same as *.vel? Why have a duplicate?
Same as *.pain the difference between last cycles body and this cycles.
*.thisgene gives the number of the gene its used in. So using it in the first gene will return 1, second gene 2 etc..
vtimer is the time till another virus shot is ready. Vshoot fires the virus.
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check the readme, I put expanations of new commands in there.
*.velup and *.vel actually refer to the same memory location, I just wanted to maintain the nomenclature of the new sysvars while keeping it backwards comaptible.
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Ah I didn't think of the readme lol thanks [Num].
Why is it so quiet today?
[Edit] I also can't find the readme you mean, I have the sysvars word document but that doesnt have velscalar or bodgain/bodlos in it.
[Edit edit] Whoa thanks Shen! I completely missed your post the first time; thanks a ton! :lol: :lol:
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Aaah so is .shang the angle the last shot hit was at? :wacko: Seems confusing to me...
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Num, have you considered tidying up the sysvars? I know your concerened about backwards compatibility but most reeeeally old bots dont work in the latest versions anyway, and it seems like the next version is going to be a big upgrade anyway so it might be worth it doing it now.
Besides theres loads of fairly useless or duplicated sysvars. Pain and pleas are essentially the same, same with bodloss/gain. Depth and Ypos are the same. Vel and velup. Plus all the millions of tie commands that only semi work.
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I have and I've been leaning towards it. trefvars will be obsolete likely by next version, and some things, like *.fixed and *.fixpos can be combined into one since you're not allowed to modify memory locations until all genes have executed.
Problem is the backwards compatibility problem.
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Can't find .mkvirus or .shangle either sorry! Can guess .mkvirus lol but what does the value stored there signify?
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Here's the readme, it's been updated for every major release, so newer stuff should be there.
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Ah well that would explain it. I posted I can't download anything from these boards lol. Sorry!
[Edit] Well whaddya know! It worked! Cheers [Num]!
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Woooohoooooo! I have done the database and a quick ASP page to test it.
Click Here! (http://I.1asphost.com/toxicshock/dna.asp)
I was wondering if anyone could read through it lol, I know it's long but I need to know which descriptions are wrong or too vague. Maybe you could write them down then post them here then I can change them. Thanks!
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not bad.
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:( not bad?! It took me aaaages to make that database! I know it has sucky descrptions but some of them are really hard to describe! Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh..................
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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Lol well that's just patronising! Hmph....
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Some guys just can't take a compliment <_<
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I am sorry [Num] I am honestly extremely grateful :D
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Woooohoooooo! I have done the database and a quick ASP page to test it.
Click Here! (http://I.1asphost.com/toxicshock/dna.asp)
I was wondering if anyone could read through it lol, I know it's long but I need to know which descriptions are wrong or too vague. Maybe you could write them down then post them here then I can change them. Thanks!
Nice database but I am a little concerned that each time I click your link I am hit with a really nasty virus attack. Luckily my firewall catches it and warns me.
The "about.blank" worm.
This little bastard hijacks your home page and sends you to some bogus site with links to all kinds of products that you don't want, then gives you lots and lots and lots of lovely popups which you just can't quite seem to make stay closed. Eventually it starts to make all your explorer programs fail bit by bit. First IE then then Windows explorer and finally the dialog boxes in your applications.
I have had this thing twice at home.
The first time I had to format the hard drive to get rid of it.
The second time I found a program called StopZilla which finally trashed it. No other spyware or virus program would touch it.
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I didn't know that was a virus or anything, I thought it was just an ad that tries to pops up on every page. I have a popup blocker on and have never had any trouble with it.
I can't do anything about it though; this is free webspace that is ASP compliant and I haven't been able to find any others like it :(
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I don't think the popup is an actual virus but if you click the window it will download it.
About.blank is just about the nastiest piece of crap that I have ever come across. It is an insideous little worm that gets so deep into your registry that you just can't seem to get rid of it. Even after you think you have deleted it, the bloody thing just keeps coming back.
The first sign is that your homepage changes and no matter how many time you reset it, it just keeps going back to About.blank. Next you start getting popups telling you that your computer is infected with spyware.
The thing is that this still happens when you unplug the internet connection so the program causing it is local.
You can never find it or delete it though because it has "hidden" attributes and is read only.
I tried dozens of downloadable patches to remove it but they all failed to fix it, even those that claimed to be designed specifically with About.blank in mind.
The only program that got rid of it was StopZilla.
If you are unlucky enough to download the worm then go here (http://www.stopzilla.com/download/download_select.asp?AID=10191&S=66&type=DOWNLOAD&topic=&source=&AAID=YxsfNPsf4Rs&dre=&cid=) to download it.
It is actually a pretty useful bit of software anyway. You get 30 days free trial then you can pay $20 to keep it.
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K I will try and find some new webspace that supports flash ,asp and MS Access. Anyone got any pointers? Lol.
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It has a cookie killer , I am getting it as soon as I get the Serial key...
On the other hand, I am planning to actualy buy northern , so maybe northern is better...
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Wouldn't know anything about Northern.
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Right OK I have made a start on a program to help new to DB to make a bot. This is what I have so far, I was wondering can someone / some people have a look to find any bugs, problems or missing things it should have please?
The way it works should be easy to work out. Just don't add any conditions before you have any genes lol I'm working on that now.
[PY] if it locks your computer I will never code again. :unsure:
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Well , you almost got the intefase right (the frame gets cut off the buttom of the screen) Otherwise your presintation work is sweet :)
Most of the buttons dont work or cause errors , the only thing I managed to do was bring up the condition making menu.
If you really want to go with this thing , a nice feature will be a search button next to each combo box. And when you select each type of variable there must be a clear complete deffinition of that variable, then the search button will search each deffinition to find the variables that best fit what you are trying to do. I need this because I for example have trouble writing complex bots because I am to lazy to go through the endless lists of sysvars , then figure out how each sysvar works I.e. what numbers it I.o.s whats the cap on this numbers , etc.
To really see what you were attempting to do , we need to see the source code...
P.S.
For a first time thats pritty good, infact you probebly did a better skin then my first time. All that flash payed off.
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What errors do you get!? None of the buttons should cause any problems as far as I know, and I have only done the conditions menu so far. And the frame is alright for me lol. Maybe your resolution is different but that wont do it will it?
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I could add the condition, but the "Add action" button does not do anything.
Also it is hard to see the letters (black on brown). And it would be sweet to have tips as to what the simbols and commands are. Like I have no idea what !%= or some such thing is. I can probably figure it out, but it would be sweet to have that right in the program. Another good addition would be a correct syntax for commands (like mentioning that repro has a meaningful range of 1-99.
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Woot at least conditions work! I will do the action entries next.
I am also going to put extra boxes to show syntax and details etc. for each entry like you say [shvarz].
K I will also tweak the colours a bit for clarity.
Thanks!
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Wasn't there a DNA writing program someone wrote way before I joined? I'm not sure how good it was, but it might be worth a look. It probably is somewhere on the old forum.
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Yes there is, Ive got a copy somewhere on my HD, if anyone wants it
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[PY] if it locks your computer I will never code again.
Well it doesn't lock up.
Doesn't do anything really. All I get from the attachment is a pile of garbled mess that I can only open from Notepad. It looks like a binary file.
VB won't touch it.
It could be that the giant firewall that I am sitting behind is ripping the guts out of it. I will try from home later.
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Yes there is, Ive got a copy somewhere on my HD, if anyone wants it
I have a copy of an early version of DB into which it was shoehorned but I don't have the source code so it could never be added to later releases.
I think it was in 2.2 something.
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Lol well I attached it as a .zip file.
Don't you just love computers?
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Yea and dont forget that search feature for each type of combo box... please?
I am trying to replicate that error now... brb...
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error : when you click the "add the condition button" in the form labeled "add conditions" you get a "subscript out of range"
The resultion I am using is 600x800 it simply does not fir into the screen, when you make a program you have to make resoultion frandly , that is : possible to see at high resolutions but fits into low resolutions. You can even get code off the net that automaticaly adjests your resolution but thats a little to advanced for your level.
bug: if you close the main window first before you close the conditions window , the conditions window will still be open that is the program will still be running. Wait until you start getting setuations when you close the program but its still eating memory in invisable mode , the only way to see it is the endtask menu.
A quick solution is to use "end" in your "form_unload" code, but microsoft says they still havent worked out that commend too good and it can cause program crashes or somthing.
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I am trying to get it to trap the terminate event to close all other related open windows too.
I'll also try and add routines for changing object sizes at runtime based on resolution and window size.
Have you actually added a gene and selected it from the listbox before clicking 'Add the Gene'?
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Right OK I changed the forecolour to make it more readable, set a function to resize the objects at runtime, and removed the possibilties of adding conditions to a non-selected gene and closing one window with the other remaining. I will probably get to work on the body of the genes and the file operations next so it actually can be used!
P.S If anyone needs .rar format or anything then just post or PM and I'll sort it out.
[Edit] By the way, [Light], could I have that copy of the other genome builder if you have it? It might be useful to help me if I am stuck or to nick some ideas lol. Thanks! :)
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Still comes through to me as a garbled text file.
I tried it at home last night and it worked OK though so the problem has to be my firewall rather than anything you are doing wrong.
On a seperate note, would you mind deleting your earlier attachment. We are rather unfortunately restricted to a total upload space of 16MB on this site so we have to get rid of old unwanted attachments.
We are only up to about 4MB so far but it is best to keep on top of things.
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The maximum file size you can attatch is 48.83mb, but yet were only got 16mb of space in total..... strange
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Isn't it though?
BTW have you ever actually tried to attach a large file?
I can't get anything larger than about 100kb to actually work.
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Done and done! :)
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Are there any forbidden characters in custom variable names?
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are you talking about vb?
only use letters A-Z , a-z and numbers 0-9 , never write a number as the first charecter vb is beefy about that.
You have to make sure your name does not conflict with the name of any of your controls , exsisting variables on the same level , and vb commands and system defined variables.
If you did your dimentioning correctly should be fine.
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Are there any forbidden characters in custom variable names?
Only trademarked names. For instance, naming something MickeyMouse is a good way to get sued back into the stone age.
:D
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Hooray I'm back for a few days :)
What's happened to the place? In some ways nothing has changed :(
Umm...I have not been able to read all the posts yet but the program your making sounds alot like a webpage version I've already made. It uses verious pulldown boxes to write in various texts(cond's, categorized actions, refvars, etc).
Honestly I got the code from the old forum and modified it to fit(see above boxes for example).
I haven't added any of the most recent code but most of it is there up to the version before last. I haven't figured out quite yet how to rig up inserting one user defined text field at multiple points but don't think it would be too hard.
I'll see about uploading it. Unfortunatly I'm nowhere close to home so it may be difficult to find a net connection.
Endy B)
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Could I have a look-see please? I am a bit stuck on how to make the interface for the body of the gene. Sorry if I have inadvertently copied you btw, I'll put a link to your app in the program! :lol:
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Not really an app, it's more like the menu you see when you write replies to the forum. Basically it's like a little program made as part of a webpage. You can drop in text(code) on the fly.
Everything is arranged into catagories based on types(shots, ties, motion, etc.)
Not quite as good as I'd like, but works okay. I'll see about posting it somewhere tonight. Might make use of the DB e-mail address to distribute it.