Darwinbots Forum

Bots and Simulations => Evolution and Internet Sharing Sims => Topic started by: Shadowgod2 on February 28, 2017, 11:38:06 PM

Title: duel sim eco
Post by: Shadowgod2 on February 28, 2017, 11:38:06 PM
so i had an idea about evolving complex ecosystems. have 2 separately evolving sims starting from the same or close to the same settings and bots(this would be similar to my duel evo sims both plant and animal evolving). when they both evolve a good bit to be considered different species, put in a temporary teleport in both to allow interactions between them. after a short time then delete the teleports and allow them to evolve separately for a while once more and repeat. what do you guys think about it and if anyone has done anything like this what was their results.. maybe this will get the forum a bit more active for a little bit... :D
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Botsareus on March 01, 2017, 08:20:31 PM
I am working on native predator prey systems aka project green light when I have time. Should help you out with what you are trying to simulate.
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Shadowgod2 on March 01, 2017, 11:27:10 PM
cool and hows that going? i know they can be tough to get stable enough to evolve... kinda why i thought of this, maybe to evolve it in some way
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Botsareus on March 02, 2017, 11:08:39 AM
I am thinking of a good time to publish a video but I need to be sure I have time to finish coding it. The video part was easy but it changes stuff enough that I may as well evolve the robots I am currently evolving from scratch. Therefore, :blueblob: for now :P
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Botsareus on March 02, 2017, 11:24:12 AM
off topic: One of the features I will need beta testing on is my fix to have both start and else in one gene. The code is rather messy there and very easy to break.

Code: [Select]
Cond
...
Start
...
Else
...
Stop
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Shadowgod2 on March 02, 2017, 12:01:23 PM
Yea i noticed that too.. it always seems to act more as another start or nothing at all now then else.

I would definitely like to see a new vid out. Other than the swarms the videos that are out dont really have much interest in them. Non seem to be about evolving a good deal..
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: spike43884 on March 05, 2017, 06:00:39 AM
Seems an interesting idea. Not sure if I'll have time to go running an instance of it though, sorry.  :(
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Botsareus on March 06, 2017, 05:39:59 PM
That is why I have more then one comp.  ;)
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Shadowgod2 on March 06, 2017, 11:06:22 PM
lol i just run it in background all day especially if im not using it...(which for me is most of the time though)
edit: also ive finally got some settings that i like for the 2 sims and so far only played for today. they already are taking different approaches in evolving but mostly by the alga... one has opted for bigger body sizes and fewer numbers while the other with about the same mutations has went for more numbers with about 2 mutations. the animal unfortunately has not yet gained even 1 avg mutation.. :glare: well lets see how it goes over night. last one i tried crashed with no bots on either screen and graphs cleared out. on the base simulation i had it to where they never really reached the nrg cap even at their highest. not so much anymore... might have to up the cap a little to keep things interesting and allow more room for development
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Shadowgod2 on March 07, 2017, 11:38:59 PM
day 2: 1 had crashed and was restarted. the other only 1 new average alga mutation and still zip for animal.... come on animal you're falling behind, i might have to up the mutation rates :dry:
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Botsareus on March 08, 2017, 09:54:49 AM
Just out of curiosity, what error did it crash with?
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: spike43884 on March 08, 2017, 11:33:09 AM
Im wondering if you might be able to over-complicate the animal_minimalis code so it does the same but in lots more code to make it more prone to mutation but less fragile?
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Shadowgod2 on March 08, 2017, 02:16:49 PM
actually the program its self didnt crash, there were no bots in the simulation so im gessing that the alga put itself in a fatal position..

Spike i might have to do that... thanks for the suggestion
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: spike43884 on March 09, 2017, 03:20:57 AM
actually the program its self didnt crash, there were no bots in the simulation so im gessing that the alga put itself in a fatal position..

Spike i might have to do that... thanks for the suggestion
No problem, I think in the past I've tried throwing in redundant code and such into bots, but I've never had particularly good evolution sims occur. Any overcomplication of code and addition of redundant code should make deletions less likely to kill off the species while allowing the same amount of mutations as a lower % of code is lost.
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Shadowgod2 on March 16, 2017, 11:53:42 PM
well ive started another go but went a different rout.. instead of using animal min... i used a much simpler bot and had it in a populations stable, high mutations environment for a while till it had around 30 mutations. i saved the bots and started a new sim split.. the mutations rate is still high but not as high as the starter sim at around 1 stable or permanent mutation every 10 generations. although behavior hasn't changed much yet they are very different bots now in their dna currently at around 30 mutations. the color verifies this but one being yellow and the other almost black when they both started out red. i'm thinking of either letting them evolve till they have 100 mutations or just different behaviors. oddly the alga haven't changed much in color.. still green at about 25 mutation.
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: spike43884 on March 17, 2017, 07:17:59 PM
well ive started another go but went a different rout.. instead of using animal min... i used a much simpler bot and had it in a populations stable, high mutations environment for a while till it had around 30 mutations. i saved the bots and started a new sim split.. the mutations rate is still high but not as high as the starter sim at around 1 stable or permanent mutation every 10 generations. although behavior hasn't changed much yet they are very different bots now in their dna currently at around 30 mutations. the color verifies this but one being yellow and the other almost black when they both started out red. i'm thinking of either letting them evolve till they have 100 mutations or just different behaviors. oddly the alga haven't changed much in color.. still green at about 25 mutation.

Perhaps introduce some competition at some point (competition less effective then even animal min to stop extinction), then you can stop the most inefficient populations sustaining themselves? #NaturalSelectionFTW
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Shadowgod2 on March 18, 2017, 12:33:20 AM
actually im modifying the environment to hopefully get good numbers for a potential predator prey system evolve after some time. unfortunately i modified the environments too much and forgot to save them and caused an extinction in one of the sims and almost in the other one too and had to back off the changes. so im starting again with the system that survived... :dry: oh well hopefully i wont make that mistake again.. then again what if i let the alga evolve in an empty sim for again before reintroducing animals again... yea lets do that lol

also its a matter of modifying the settings a little bit and in a stable way as not to kill them and to start out with an already stable pop
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: spike43884 on March 22, 2017, 03:14:05 AM
actually im modifying the environment to hopefully get good numbers for a potential predator prey system evolve after some time. unfortunately i modified the environments too much and forgot to save them and caused an extinction in one of the sims and almost in the other one too and had to back off the changes. so im starting again with the system that survived... :dry: oh well hopefully i wont make that mistake again.. then again what if i let the alga evolve in an empty sim for again before reintroducing animals again... yea lets do that lol

also its a matter of modifying the settings a little bit and in a stable way as not to kill them and to start out with an already stable pop
I wonder if that could be controlled from a script or some code... Make the program do small automatic changes and check if it creates any pop instabilities?
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Botsareus on March 23, 2017, 07:30:27 PM
This is all fun and all but saving a robot, modifying the new settings, and saving the robot again the program does automatically. It is called survival evolution restart modes. You can also throw in dynamic costs. :P Sorry did not reply earlier. Do appreciate the attempt to have a stable ecosystem under current vegy architecture though. I gave up on that after about 24h run time.
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Botsareus on March 23, 2017, 08:19:27 PM
Somewhat related but mostly off topic:
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Shadowgod2 on March 24, 2017, 12:00:10 AM
really you cant get a stable eco? i have this one running just fine... also update.. i've modified the sets for a river type sim mostly because evo had slowed a bit.. now explosions in diversity of plants but in one they've become semi cancerous trying to get the animal now to evolve more too to help keep them under control, tweaking the sets slightly.

so to enable a river type sim i put in a little gravity and fluid density to it. then i put in 10 random shapes with drift on although i think its a bit too fast even on the slowest settings..(i personally like extremely slow to let evolution take place a bit first..) unfortunately animal is a bit too slow on mutating now and almost stopped evolving. however i do have 2 stable animals in the same eco although they aren't very different atm.

nice btw bots, is that the one you've been evolving here lately? also i you want some tips on getting a stable eco i might be able to help on that.
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Botsareus on March 30, 2017, 08:28:37 PM
Quote
no explosions in diversity of plants but in one they've become semi cancerous

Nice. I was playing with different setting combinations early on trying to get them to evolve but did not want to make a career out of it (if you know what I mean.) So I opted to do a hack instead (which resulted in project greenlight) that forces them to start attacking under most settings.

I sincerely hope that when I upgrade everything to project greenlight chloroplast system your ecosystem stuff will still work correctly.
Also, if you think your methods are rock solid enough I suggest you attempt to publish it like I plan to do with my evolution algorithms.
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Shadowgod2 on March 31, 2017, 12:02:19 AM
well its not really rock solid but definitely helps. i've actually found that animal_min.. and alga_min.. aren't very compatible with each other which is why i made a alga that was.. you can get a sim with them though but it has to be huge weighed more towards the alga and the sim would run very slow...

also i just looked at the description of the mutations sim in red and its not far off from what i do.. definitely needs an update since the chloroplasts... i'll start one up..


i also let the sims interact a little and i think i need to start over because even though mutations seem to go well before it almost seemed to have stopped for algas in one sim and animals in the other before i interacted them... but was still interesting to watch happen.
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: spike43884 on April 03, 2017, 01:28:51 PM
well its not really rock solid but definitely helps. i've actually found that animal_min.. and alga_min.. aren't very compatible with each other which is why i made a alga that was.. you can get a sim with them though but it has to be huge weighed more towards the alga and the sim would run very slow...

also i just looked at the description of the mutations sim in red and its not far off from what i do.. definitely needs an update since the chloroplasts... i'll start one up..


i also let the sims interact a little and i think i need to start over because even though mutations seem to go well before it almost seemed to have stopped for algas in one sim and animals in the other before i interacted them... but was still interesting to watch happen.

I found that alga can be a bit weak at times too...
I've been trying to force an alga to reproduce a couple of times quite quickly if no other alga's surround it (similar to a spore of fungus or plant seed growing) and then stay stably growing in a cluster.
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: Shadowgod2 on April 04, 2017, 08:36:28 AM
you mean like my alga? lol
Title: Re: duel sim eco
Post by: spike43884 on April 05, 2017, 11:54:45 AM
you mean like my alga? lol
If that 900-odd memory location is to do with seeing other members of the species, yeah.

I'd also love to setup a bot which can form a string and be properly bouyant...Ah, so many things to do!