Darwinbots Forum

Bots and Simulations => Bot Tavern => Topic started by: spoonkiny on September 07, 2005, 07:04:20 PM

Title: is it possible
Post by: spoonkiny on September 07, 2005, 07:04:20 PM
to make a very complex bot an example a water bear (http://www.lunaparc.com/images/microscopics/thumbnails/tardegrade2.jpg)
(http://www.lunaparc.com/images/microscopic...tardegrade2.jpg)

that and have it move?

probably not huh? :unsure:
Title: is it possible
Post by: PurpleYouko on September 07, 2005, 07:06:54 PM
I would say it is possible but certainly not easy.

Have you checked out some of the more complex multi-bots?
Title: is it possible
Post by: Botsareus on September 07, 2005, 07:43:09 PM
soon. , sounds like a fun robot...

Check out "worm" in the bestary , its more like a wiggle , wiggle fishy thing, but it can be moded enough (parts added) to move like that thing "water bear" or somthing.

The overall shape and valume wont be perefict. We simply dont have enough spu this days to try a mb more then 10 cells big.
Title: is it possible
Post by: Numsgil on September 08, 2005, 02:23:45 PM
In 2.4 currently you can't make a swimming bot because I was having trouble integrating the forces caused on ties moving in the medium.

Just a note.
Title: is it possible
Post by: Greven on September 08, 2005, 03:00:47 PM
Actually you could make something like this.

'  h
'  l
L-b-L
'  l
L-b-L

Could it not be possible in the current system or something like it?

h = head
b = body
and
L = leg

Can it move if moves its legs or the like, and the body will follow by forces...???
Title: is it possible
Post by: PurpleYouko on September 08, 2005, 03:47:31 PM
Just relying on forces doesn't work too well. You move a leg backwards and the body moves forward (conservation of momentum)
Then you move the leg forward again and the body goes right back where it was.

A better option!!!

Move legs forward then make the feet grab something with "fixpos" then when you move the legs back the body will move forward. Make the legs let go and move them forward again.

You could get a centipede this way in theory.
Title: is it possible
Post by: Botsareus on September 08, 2005, 03:58:19 PM
That fixpos is evil btw, my first is using it to kill off everyone else fast , just sits there shots everything crossing its path.
Title: is it possible
Post by: PurpleYouko on September 08, 2005, 04:29:12 PM
How do you kill anything with FIXPOS?  :blink:
Title: is it possible
Post by: Botsareus on September 08, 2005, 04:42:44 PM
you know the way first bots are , they run in straight lines, So its like every robot takes a turn passing the same point, If they had someone to push arroung like (no fixpos when a robot does nothing exsept shoot in one place) then there line of death would of bin distorted a little and they have a better chance.

But since the robot just stays there and everything bounces off him in exactly the same way, robots take turns getting sprayed the hell out of them by that son of a beEEEEep, Maybe make an energy shot bounce off a robot when it has full energy?
(just an idea , you don't have to do it its not a big rush)

(and fixpos does not kill the robots, the robots kill themselfs , I know, I found ways arround it too.)
Title: is it possible
Post by: spoonkiny on September 08, 2005, 04:57:41 PM
ok soo how do you make a MB ? what do you do to make a new body part form?
Title: is it possible
Post by: Endy on September 08, 2005, 05:53:07 PM
Basically for developed MB's the bot reproduces like normal but if it has 0 ties it will tie to it's parent. When it reaches it's max desired size and has enough nrg, it either splits and repeats above step or simply reproduces and doesn't permanently tie to the child.

An evolved version I've seen lately for some reason is the development of fractal trees of bots.(The One is notorious for this) The child ties to their parent at birth. If a parent dies the MB splits to produce new sets of "trees". They also will repro a temporary Single bot if the parent reaches the max number of ties.

Another evolved method is to form a blob of tied bots, that bennefits from the aimdx/aimsx to spin the entire structure.
Title: is it possible
Post by: Numsgil on September 08, 2005, 06:52:44 PM
In 2.4, tie forces are now like springs.  Damped springs anyway.  You should really play around with it some time to get a feel...

I've always felt fixpos was a little artificial.  I wish there was a better way that gave the same result.
Title: is it possible
Post by: PurpleYouko on September 08, 2005, 08:51:58 PM
Quote
ok soo how do you make a MB ? what do you do to make a new body part form?

Check out a few of the MBs in the beastiary or on the DB database site (see links)

Also check out my tutorial on the FTP download site. It shows a step by step approach to making a simple MB. More complex ones (mine anyway) include Devincio hexagonis, Inchworm and several others.

Hexagonis is still the biggest organized MB to my knowledge. 6 Bots in a carefully made circular formation.
Title: is it possible
Post by: Botsareus on September 08, 2005, 09:10:11 PM
[span style=\'font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\']spooky please, please stop posting "stuped" bots in the bestary. Is it just me? Am I hyper or what?[/span]
Title: is it possible
Post by: Endy on September 08, 2005, 09:10:56 PM
Umm...high mass has a similar effect to .fixpos; the only difference being the bot can still be shoved around somewhat.

I've seen bigger MBs than hex but the word organized is [you]extremely[/you][/b] debatable. :) :D
Title: is it possible
Post by: PurpleYouko on September 08, 2005, 09:42:10 PM
Quote
spooky please, please stop posting "stuped" bots in the bestary.

They do bear a striking resemblence to I Flamma  <_<
Title: is it possible
Post by: Numsgil on September 09, 2005, 09:34:33 AM
Like even some of the same comments in there.  How much did you change spooky?
Title: is it possible
Post by: Botsareus on September 09, 2005, 03:13:26 PM
(he added a tie gene to I Flamma , skilled out bro)

(the other one, forest fire he calles it , is a junk dna virsion of I Flamma , the difference is still in one gene  :sleep: )
Title: is it possible
Post by: PurpleYouko on September 09, 2005, 03:36:08 PM
I remember about a year ago we had somebody (don't remember his name now)come in here and release a bot which turned out to be an exact copy (other than one added gene that really didn't do anything anyway) of "Destinatus Preliator", then had the cheek to tell me it was an original design.

If that twat hadn't left of his own free will I would probably have banned him before much longer.

Not that there is anything wrong with customising someone else's bot. You just need to have the curtesy to acknowledge it.
Spooky actually did so in one of his earlier posts so it isn't so much that he is working with lightly modified Flammas that is the issue. Everybody needs to start somewhere.
I even have a (rather heavily) modded Flamma of my own on the league under the name "Purple Flamma"

The issue is more that minor mods to existing bots really have no place in the beastiary. They just take up valuable web space and serve no real purpose.

Also I Flamma is somewhat of a legend in the DB world. In V2.1 it thoroughly ruled the roost for the longest time (Until I kicked its ass with the first tie feeder "Devincio Venator"  :D )
Title: is it possible
Post by: Numsgil on September 09, 2005, 04:56:07 PM
What we need is a way to catalog bot derivatives.  I don't know that we can do it with the current forum controls though.
Title: is it possible
Post by: Botsareus on September 09, 2005, 08:56:28 PM
"derivatives." , hmm like:  6^0.5 =  3^0.5 * 2^0.5. ahh I know freedictionary.com , bingo

P.S.

I gess I only will have time to intergrate the ties by next week , sat  I got a DJ party to "attend"  :P , sunday I got to take a trip to my grandma. So I had a free gap tuday from 3pm to 9pm , o well going to sleep soon.

Edit:

ahhhh derivative, well Num If you actualy want to encurage people to make simple useless derivatives of bots then me and PY dont really agree with you. Unless there is a greater reason to this then I can see.

DOH! :blink:  , do you mean filter out bot derivatives that look suspicious?
Title: is it possible
Post by: Ulciscor on September 09, 2005, 10:30:31 PM
Maybe 'strains' would be a better word instead of derivatives?

Quote
do you mean filter out bot derivatives that look suspicious?

I thought this meant that there should be a sort of structure for storing bots which are modified versions of other bots. Like a family tree. It would be hard to do here but could be done with databases and stuff. Now there's an idea...
Title: is it possible
Post by: Old Henk on September 10, 2005, 03:14:07 AM
Maybe a #include command?

ie:
A shimazu that turns all the time:


#include shimazu.txt
cond
start
100 .aimdx store
stop

end
Title: is it possible
Post by: Numsgil on September 11, 2005, 02:51:18 PM
Quote
Maybe 'strains' would be a better word instead of derivatives?
Undoubtedly
Title: is it possible
Post by: Numsgil on September 11, 2005, 02:53:00 PM
Quote
Maybe a #include command?

ie:
A shimazu that turns all the time:


#include shimazu.txt
cond
start
100 .aimdx store
stop

end
That could work really well.

Youd have to label the genes as something, so you could overwrite some of them, or just add new ones.

Alot depends on if gene order will matter in future versions (I'm thinking not).