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Messages - Welwordion

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DNA - General / my tryouts. Help plz
« on: September 18, 2005, 04:50:00 PM »
how you seperated that? its one calculation I put in 3 lines
weight left
weight right(negative)
sum both together and store value
????? :huh:

bye the way if you write .aimsx 30 inc will the value in .aimsx be increased by thirty
(remember seeing something like that in purples tutorial but I am not sure.)

Bot Tavern / multibot theories
« on: September 18, 2005, 04:45:09 PM »
ok write here about all concepts how multibots might work, which strategies they may use.

I will start with my thoughts.

1There seems to be an agreement , that the movement of multibots is extremely hard to coordinate (that is if there is not a "leader" and the other just  adapts there speed and ditance like swarms usually do)
so the easiest way to avoid this is to create a stationary multibot.
Whats the role of a stationary bot?
There are 2 food gaining mechanism for him,
 either relying on food that moves into his reaches(he could exploit attraction mechanism, like use a virus to hypnotize prey to come to him)
or managing an source of algae/veggies, which means limiting his energy and protecting his foodsource from extern influences.
To optimize the ratio protection(energy use) and energy gain.The outer surface has to be mimized while the inner surface has o be maximized(you can not feed of algae surrounded by other algae)(large free  areas abundant of food would be some quite good saftey puffers against non algae transporting  bots)

2A multibot invests quite much energy to reach full growth, such creating full
 developed progeny would probably slow down his reproduction to much.
The most practibable solution I think is the production of spores which will always result
in the fact that a multibot will have to go trough different lifephases

3Because a multibot invests so much to complete his structure and his numbers are lower compared to single bots  he can not afford to die that easily.
Result is that to be praticable an multibot has to have an really strong and flawless
as possible immune system.

4So far I can imagine three growth patterns :
First after surrounding an single algae, a layer growth with cells alway trying to point outward(where no other bots are), the inner structure then could be formed by letting inner cells die.For example when a cell binds to an algae and has 2 non algae neigbors these could be forbbiden to bind algaes such algae and non algae binding cells  would alternate after enough outer layer would have build up the nonbinding cells would die, the binding cells would ensure they are connected to a neigbour of their own species(the outer layer)this new connection partner then would be converted to an algae binding cell, their neigbors to nonbinding.After several cylces of this the inner surface would have grown.
Second concept is the alternation of layer growth and ring extension, inspired by certain tree growth mechanisms. The basic thought is when the outer layer extends
drastical the inner layer connections will be dragged apart the inner cell would register that stress and cut ties if the stress reachs a certain lvl.This would also result in a greater inner surface.
Third an extending ring that grows string from his inner surface, here also could be used an alternation system trigerred by algae.

Well thats what I could think of till now.

DNA - General / my tryouts. Help plz
« on: September 18, 2005, 01:25:43 PM »
ok I tried to design a search gene but for some reason it does not work were is the mistake?

*.eye4 *.eye5 > or
*.eye3 *.eye5 > or
*.eye2 *.eye5 > or
*.eye1 *.eye5 > or
*.eye6 *.eye5 > or
*.eye7 *.eye5 > or
*.eye8 *.eye5 > or
*.eye9 *.eye5 >
*.eye1 3 mult *.eye2 4 mult add *.eye3 5 mult add *.eye4 6 mult add 10 div
*.eye9 -3 mult *.eye8 -4 mult add *.eye7 -5 mult add *.eye6 -6 mult add 10 div
add .aimsx store


so what it should do, if any target is nearer then  the target in front it should
rotate based on the attractivity of the side. I weighted  the values to calculate attractivity.

Well in any case the rotation is to weak , but the real problem is it only rotates correctly clockwise never anticlockwise.

Bot Tavern / converting to plant?
« on: September 17, 2005, 04:27:05 AM »
Ok just a thought but would it be possible for a robot to copy all his Dna into an algae trough virus insertion and then deleting the algae Dna ?
If so such robots would easily become indepandent from feeding,the coudl even become independant of reproducing by just mimicking the enemys(eye number)
and then inserting their own Dna into it.

Probably that idea was brought up before but as I said my forum search never works.

Newbie / hi and O_o uff
« on: September 17, 2005, 04:14:39 AM »
hmm well first I looked for a central information library on the site(in think I had the old site)
However there was nothing like that. I looked into the tutorial and it only gave basic information confusing about the syntax,grammar of the language,
I found the forum searched for links somehow got to wikipedia and trough you I got the link to the new site and the tutoria from youko.
I also found the Dna help ingame during all this process but I had the old version then and I forgot there where descriptions.
I also found the textfile which memory numbers are related to task but forgot the name until I found it again later.
Hmm now that I seeon the tutorial in the new page it seems some of the grammar is explained.

AHH well I will tell you what structure would be the best.
First give a central link on the page to all helpfiles,collect them in one place.
Second there should 3 main tutorials:
1ingame physics and anatomy
2syntax and basic programming commands as well as explanation(current Dna tutorial?)
of stack (that there is only one stack) and the importance of order in the DNA
3Advanced programming and history of code(so one knows which concepts where tested already and what are currentyl the optimal solutions and what results where
created when certain bots competed)

Newbie / hi and O_o uff
« on: September 16, 2005, 06:11:04 PM »
Well I looked in some manuals, but it resembles kind of a treasure search its hard to find what you want to know, even finding the manuals is hard ^^.
And the searchfunction of the forum does not work for me, it never finds anything.

hm about the intern help file its named Dna help so I did not exspect it to be there sorry, miscalculation of my side.

Hmm about body ,this probably means there is alimit to energy storage otherwise body would be of no use,well I will look where I can find the number.

Ahh well I am easy to confuse sorry :/

Newbie / hi and O_o uff
« on: September 16, 2005, 05:00:01 PM »
hmm excuse me but I have to give some critic there is no clear description of the metabolism, anatomy etc
For example what does slime and shell do? waste how it is produced does it really
fertilize algae grow?Or was that not realized?What dorobots leave behind when they die?
etc etc

Newbie / hi and O_o uff
« on: September 16, 2005, 03:34:53 PM »
yeah will be kind of hard.
Also I think I misunderstood the nature of virus I thought they only implemented
information bits but if they create real genes thats pretty hard to defend against if there is no way to check Dna ^^
I really need DB Anatomy lessons    :help:

Newbie / hi and O_o uff
« on: September 16, 2005, 07:04:51 AM »
I thought about the details a little bit tonight and I think I would try out the following
first life phase: a single cell wanders around as a spore in search of veggies

second life phase: After finding an veggie and tying to it its starts to grow a linked
cell structure (cell try to link as mcuh on their own type)either tyring to surround the veggie or to loose it from its neigbor cells by digesting the surrounding cells.

third life phase: the multicell structure is growing slowly according to its energy
the cells check how much neigbours(ties) it has and gets the same information from its own neigbours if his 4 neigbours has 13-16 ties it can safely assume its an inner cell and will kill itself by giving all energy to one of his neigbour cells.
The  number of ties required for this selfkilling will be reduced if the cell is linked to an algae, such inner spaces will be created for the algae to grow in while the other cells form an outer hull.

fourth life phase: the basic survivial strategy now will be a defensive predator:
Either I am not attacked than I can slowy grow with energy of the algae and produce spores once and then or I am attacked, then I use my strong defensive mechanisms most of my capacity are used for to kill the attacker and feed on him
some excess energy I either use to produce spores or to feed the algae to store my energy in a way that increases my "generator" output.
this way multicells could even slowly monopolize algaes.

defensive mechanism can be: the production of poison, the sending of certain viruses,preemptive leeching or feeding strikes,the production of bomb cells that solve their ties and then use al their remaining energy to kill the enemy,(moving away<--seldomly),extermination of viruses by realizing you are tied to an enemy
and using backup values from your "healthy" neigbours
and probably some more I not yet thought of.

ps:bye the way the new  default setting file does somehow not work for me ^^

Newbie / hi and O_o uff
« on: September 15, 2005, 07:30:31 PM »
Well I am new found my way trough some links about artificial life and hell of confused  :huh: .
(I already experienced the same thing when finding an a-life game called E-den.)

There is so much to learn and its so difficult  to find the right informations.
For example the meaning of > in the syntax and which numbers already have functions and which not.

Ah but I will not lose hope and try to learn the stuff  :D

some resume on my design thoughts:
First I thought about the design of a circle surrounding the algae, however I found that this design was already discussed.

My second thought is to orient the devolpment of multiple cell organisms according to the immune system.
Protection against outer influences is always a main drive for forming collective structures and a large amout of our bodies resources are used for this purpose,
Not to mention that the immune system is one of the highest  developed sytems in nature(if I remember right the immune and nervous system are somewhat related
in their origin)
As the main outer influences in this simulation  are other organism this strategy seems most appropriate for me.
*detailed information after point three

My third idea is  implementing a network of multiply cells with everchanging connecting and the ability to ordered cell death.This concept basically stems from the fact that cell death plays a big role in the forming of our body structures.
With the right basic instructions this could lead to complex structures.
(for example creating inside the body  where algae could grow)
In the best case this could even to the forming of simple information processing networks.

*immune system thoughts: repair and backup system can be provided by multiple cells, if cells regulary compare certain values that would normally not be changed
and overwrite the value with the most common in his neighbors virus infection can be healed.
One of the most important abilities of the immune system is to identify foreign objetcs and learn according reactions (specific antibodys etc) as you can only fight if you see your enemy,thus certain cells could be used as information storage(memory) and specialize in the idenfication of dangers , such the cell could also learn the success of certain behaviour associated with certain objects.
(the concepts of association is one of the moszt powerful mechansim of information progressing).
A skin is a defensive mechism of the immune system and consist of highly defensive outer cells the question stays however what use inner cells could have?
The most promising scenario for inner cells would be integrated algae or an inner digestion system which however would require a "mouth".
Another scenario is that of inner reproduction which leads to a "hatching".
An immune system could rely on the creation of a certain "pass" or best multiple passes as long the pass does not mutate  identification is possible and a biodiversity of passes combined with other tests would guarentee populations that are immune to certain diseases/infiltrators.

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