Messages

76

Bugs and fixes / Resizing graphs RESOLVED 2.43.1

« on: February 05, 2008, 05:24:14 PM »

When slowly-ish resizing any graph window vertically to minimum I get a runtime error 380: "Invalid property value" and the sim freezes. Sometimes I need to enlarge the window a bit again for the error to pop out, but it never fails to show up.

77

Off Topic / I feel like the bartender at the DarwinBots Bar!

« on: February 05, 2008, 04:46:00 PM »

I love it!  Both the poetry and the bar. Cheers!

78

DNA - General / Poison Question

« on: January 10, 2008, 03:57:13 PM »

Poison is absorbed by conspecs (I knew it didn't affect them, but I didn't know they got the poison, too).

How are conspecs determined in the code? I can't atm look myself..

79

DNA - General / A question

« on: November 24, 2007, 09:51:52 AM »

So even 98 **.eye5 store would be possible?

80

DNA - General / A question

« on: November 24, 2007, 09:42:31 AM »

What happens if you try to store a value in location above 1000? Is the location modded (12345 1000 mod)?

EDIT:
Can you store memory location into a memory location?
Eg.

Code: [Select]

start
blah blab >
400 *971 store

81

Suggestions / Gene structure - cond start stop

« on: November 24, 2007, 07:59:58 AM »

Looks very nice!

Just to check, if I understood this completely, would this work?

start
*.body *.nrg >
*.nrg 500 >
50 .strbody store
and
-50 .strbody store
stop


EDIT:
Oh, what about else? Would this work?

start
*.eye5 50 >
.shoot dec
else
314 rnd .aimsx store
stop

82

Evolution and Internet Sharing Sims / predetor prey sims

« on: November 24, 2007, 07:21:19 AM »

Limitations like that tend to mutate off first in evolving dna. If a bot can hunt what it wants it can get much more energy than hunting only other bots or only veggies. For the same reason cannibalism is an often seen behaviour in evosims.

83

Tips and Tricks / giving more than 50%

« on: November 24, 2007, 07:15:26 AM »

If mutations are turned on it does make difference from evolutionary point of view.

When a bot reproduces, the children is often in some way mutated, usually for worse. The more energy the less fit offspring is given, the higher it's changes of survival and reproduction are and lower the changes of survival are for more fit parent, which could reproduce more healthy bots if it survived. So, if the less fit get's to reproduce and the more fit don't, the future generations get less fit.

On the other hand, if the descendant get's too little energy, their changes of survival are low, beneficial mutations or no, and they may not reproduce at all. Then the line could die, even if it contained extremely beneficial mutations that others do not have.

So the energy given to offspring has to balance between giving enough energy for the offspring (and the genome of the parent) to survive and giving little enough so that the fit ones can reproduce and as many as possible of the less fit ones don't.

84

Bot Tavern / Incomplete constructed Mb individuals?

« on: November 24, 2007, 06:48:24 AM »

That pretty much depends on the code you're using and what happens after the start, when the conditions aren't necessarily same for everyone. With so little information, I can't say much more.

85

Evolution and Internet Sharing Sims / How to avoid cannibotism?

« on: November 22, 2007, 05:28:40 PM »

In my longest running evosim (7M cycles) my bots haven't still evolved cannibalism, or the cannibals have died off every time. The bots use *.refeye *.myeye != check. Well, kinda.

They move fast and shoot from quite far away - even their own species - but when they get close to other than their species, ie. veggies, they slow down to target's speed and shoot more accurate. This way the move around the large field when they see any bots, but feed carefully only of other species.

By the way, I'd be interested if any of you could find out how it reproduces.

Code: [Select]


cond
 *576 !=
 !=
 ~ *498 *.eye2dir 0 and
 not
 <
 !=
 -489 !=
 | not
 0 *677 and
 ~=
 ~ .aimleft dec
 and
 .up dec
 0 and
 & *.eyef store
 *.tmemloc else
 stop

''''''''''''''''''''''''Gene  1: Last 'stop' at position  34''''''''''''''''''''''',

 stop

''''''''''''''''''''''''Gene  1: Last 'stop' at position  35''''''''''''''''''''''',

 >> 1 -4 *555 <
 not
 -4 or
 start
 store
 ~ 0 dec
 stop

''''''''''''''''''''''''Gene  1: Last 'stop' at position  49''''''''''''''''''''''',

 angle *.tmemloc *.eye1 0 add dec
 store
 cond
 *426 dist ceil *.eye3 0 mod !=
 0 add ~ inc
 6 not
 and
 16 else
 >=
 0 inc
 *.trefaimsx div start
 or
 dec
 *.dn 336 sub .aimright store
 ^ <
 else
 pyth <
 *.eye9 mult -129 start
 *919 -31 !~=
 dec
 ~ *.eye9 *.eye1 start
 stop

''''''''''''''''''''''''Gene  2: Last 'stop' at position  104''''''''''''''''''''''',

 *-388 *.eye8 add stop
 *.eye2 ~ !=
 ~=
 pow %=
 abs *-117 pow !~=
 *.eye7 start
 *.eye7 *.eye3 <
 sub

'The main gene

cond
 or
'The bot evolved with circling bots, hence eye4, not 5
 *.eye4 !=
 pow cond
 1 and
 start
 add 35 *.eye3 *.eye7 sub 453 sgn div .sx store
 rnd 30 .up store
 *.refveldx .dx store
 start
 *20 522 and
 *754 ^ sub ^ << !%=
 1 start
 .shoot dec
 37

'the second clearly meaningful gene

cond
 *.up dec
 7 *.eye5 47 >
 *.refeye *.myeye !=
 *50 ceil 0 =
 add start
 *.refvelup .up store
 10 .shootval inc
 start
 store
 floor inc
 *.nrg not
 =
 114 *.aimright pyth and
 floor *.body cond
 store
 <
 3284 start
 store
 xor
 pow sub dup 41 300 >
 store
 else

86

DNA - General / Feeding and body

« on: October 25, 2007, 04:34:09 PM »

That's the other option.  I still think it's better to have body gain be 0 from nrg shots, and then give bots body when they pass 32000 nrg as part of the nrg overflow, instead of just tossing the nrg away.  The conversion could even happen at a substancial loss, since it's an overflow method.

Hmm.. Actually, now that I think about it that would be better. We have -6 shots for effective bodyfeeding after all. But still I'd like there to be unfavourable conversion rate, as you said could be possible.

87

Evolution and Internet Sharing Sims / Some thoughts on autocosts

« on: October 23, 2007, 05:21:46 PM »

First off, I think autocosts are wonderful feature and I've so far used it in my every sim. However, I think it should be used carefully.

A couple of my first evosims all evolved conditionless reproduction very quickly, it probably spread at the first time repro-gene mutated. After some pondering on why that happened, I realized that I had set autocost sensitivity pretty high, in the center section of the slider. Because a quick (or continous) reproducer increases population extremely fast, costx skyrockets. Quick reproducers get more coverage to find energy to fight rising costs than their slower cousins and their generation time is shorter allowing faster mutation to cope with the changes. (By the way, don't bacteria too benefit from short generation times in exterme conditions?). As this happened, the original strain died out. Now that I've set sensivity lower (the lowest possible) in my never sims none of this has happened. The bots still hold on to conditional reproducing after 1000 generations and nearly 500 mutations in the latest sim.

Another thing that I thought of, is that doesn't autocost hamper adaptation? For example: When a bot mutates in a way that allows it to save energy and not to lose it's effectiveness it probably has more energy for reproducing, resulting in higher population. But as population rises, so do the costs so that the mutation loses much of it's significance. My point is, doesn't that cut "the reward" for adapting to situations compared to sims where costs stay the same?

One effect this has is that program puts constant evolutionary pressure on saving more energy. In real life (as far as I know), better times that come with higher population size, allow DNA to be more sparing with energy - or food or whatever - and when times are hard, there's pressure to use energy more effectively. In darwinbots this could mean when there's been some beneficial mutations evolving new, more complex features could be easier to develop than "normally". Reason for this being that some of more advanced actions (think viruses or tie feeding) require a number of stores, which are not all directly useful.

I'll stop now or I'll ramble on forever.

Any thougths?

88

DNA - General / Feeding and body

« on: October 23, 2007, 04:34:17 PM »

I don't really like program set limits like nrg shots returning body after 32000 energy. I prefer Eric's more gradual way to limit body gain, ie. setting the body gain percentage much lower. 1-5% should be low enough. I personally feel that lower the better.

By the way, what happens now to nrg shots bot's hit with if it has 32000 energy?

If it is lost (or even more so if it's turned to waste) it could encourage, even if very slightly, evolving some kind of body management. Though I wouldn't think that effects of having 32000 are high concern for evolving bots

89

DNA - General / Feeding and body

« on: October 19, 2007, 02:44:50 PM »

Is there any hope of changing it? I know DB is supposed to be backwards compatible, but energy-body management has been around for some time now (from summer -04, according to F1 league's bot addition dates) and only a few bots in leagues predate it.

If the change isn't too much of a hazzle, leagues could be run with it and see if there's dramatic changes and undo it if needed.

One alternative would be designing enough new bots to push the old ones from league and then change it  It could take a while though: Darth Shimazu still holds place 14.

Edit: some typos.

90

DNA - General / Feeding and body

« on: October 19, 2007, 09:43:04 AM »

Okay, thanks. Evolved bots seem to take advantage of this. In all of my evosims bodymanagement has broken up after a while and bots get all their body (100-300) from shooting. It's a bit of a shame becouse it further simplifies dna.