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Messages - shvarz

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16
Newbie / Re: Chloroplasts
« on: September 25, 2014, 03:01:55 PM »
Quote
? 1 body is like leafe coverage the more body the larger the leaf

Sorry, but that does not make any sense. If you are getting energy from chloroplasts, then it should not matter how large your body is. For one, body is not equal size in DB2. Second, spreading the same number of chloroplasts over a larger space should not give you more energy.

17
Newbie / Re: Chloroplasts
« on: September 25, 2014, 01:31:46 PM »
Thanks, this is quite helpful.

The logic of multiplying by body points is not clear, however. What is it meant to simulate?

How much do chloroplasts cost to make? Do they decay over time?

Also, it looks like now "repopulation" is driven by chloroplast count. Why and how does it work?

18
Newbie / Re: Chloroplasts
« on: September 25, 2014, 06:54:51 AM »
So, if "per veggie" is turned on, then chloroplasts don't count at all or does each veggie get extra energy?

Seems like these options are not really necessary anymore.

Do chloroplasts contribute a lot to the size of the bot? How much do they contribute to the body and weight? Any other downsides to having chloroplasts?

19
Newbie / Re: Chloroplasts
« on: September 24, 2014, 10:54:35 PM »
Thanks. That part I kind of figured. The more chloroplasts you have, the more energy you get if the sun is up. Does that calculation take into account the settings to give energy "per cycle" "per kilobody" or "quadratic per kilobody"? If it does, how?

20
Newbie / Chloroplasts
« on: September 24, 2014, 09:19:17 PM »
OK, i'm not a newbie, but rather an oldie so old that he lost touch...  ;)

Can someone explain to me how chloroplasts work and how they relate to the other options for energy for bots?

And since we are on the topic, do we even need an option to feed veggies in ways that are not chloroplast-dependent?

21
Biology / Re: Need some input on my cholorplast algorithm
« on: January 10, 2013, 03:29:04 PM »
Sounds reasonable, good luck!

22
Biology / Re: Need some input on my cholorplast algorithm
« on: January 09, 2013, 07:14:15 PM »
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If we go with this, every bot has to be updated with "on age 1 I need to dump all my chloroplasts"

Not necessarily. They can be dropped into the sim without chloroplasts and then make them.

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after long long generations a robot can evolve not to rely on chloroplasts at all. What if we take that robot (DNA only) and put it into a new sim?

As I discovered in my sims a long time ago, that's a problem for any long-evolved bot. You take it out of a sim, drop into a new one and most likely it will not survive. That's because the bots that evolved alongside it are the proper environment for it, it adapted to them. It's not adapted to "being dropped into a new sim".

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I have spent a long time designing a system where I evolve a robot that can kill any other robot in F1 mode
The whole point of the F1 mode is to keep conditions always the same, as they were originally designed. You do any changes to it and the bots will not work as before and ratings will change. So, if you want F1 mode, don't bother with ANY changes. If you want to improve the program and make it a more sophisticated model, then you should strive to make the sims as self-sufficient as possible. And that means "no repopulating". I never liked the sims with active repopulating, it always felt like a cludge, made to compensate for the fact that DB's ecosystems are often unstable. You implement this and you won't need that cludge.

23
Biology / Re: Need some input on my cholorplast algorithm
« on: January 09, 2013, 03:40:25 PM »
Quote
If the whole screen was pure robots then the feeding rate is zero, If half the screen is robots then feeding rate is average.

Something like that. This would automatically create a self-balancing system of veggies, which could oscillate or remain fairly static or even lead to different life strategies. The exact details of how much to give when - that I don't know, this would require some careful thinking and empirical testing (can leave that up to the user if you want).

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The only thing I am concerned about is , what incentive will robots have to evolve there own chloroplasts if the program repopulates Vegys (as it does now, and I really do not want to modify that too much)?

I'm actually thinking that you would only keep "veggies" in the sim and get rid of "non-veggies". The "veggies" in this system can turn themselves into "non-veggies" by dumping all of their chloroplasts.

A good sim would not need to repopulate veggies (only when the whole system dies off), their population would be autobalanced by the mechanism suggested above and by the natural predator-prey cycles. You would only need to populate it once.

24
Off Topic / Re: Am I really Russian?
« on: January 09, 2013, 11:35:53 AM »
I don't mean that you should have an actual physical keyboard with russian letters on it. I mean that you can install russian keyboard support and type blindly. It's really not that difficult to learn. Take one of those programs that teach typing, in a couple of weeks you'll be fluent enough to do short texts and then it's just practice. I've done this about 10 years ago, it's really like driving a bike or a car - once you learn it, it becomes automatic. In fact, I type better in Russian because I learned formally to type in that language, while my English-typing skills have been just learned by typing so my fingers are not set correctly for quick typing.

25
Biology / Re: Need some input on my cholorplast algorithm
« on: January 09, 2013, 11:31:13 AM »
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The problem is, the robot gains energy from chloroplasts each cycle, so, how do I add energy and subtract it at the same time?

If it's linear (as in each chloroplast always produces x energy and costs y energy to maintain), then indeed this does not make sense to do. I thought your exact point was to make this a more complex system. In that system there are environment-dependent pluses and minuses in having chloroplasts. As a simple example, you may have "night" and "day" (DB already supports that) and depending on the relative duration of the two, having chloroplasts may be beneficial or not. Or, as another example, it may be beneficial to have chloroplasts when bot population density is low and "light is abundant", but as population density grows and there's more "competition for light", then chloroplasts may not be a good idea. So, it does make sense to add and subtract energy at the same time.

Quote
I also forgot to mention that robots that have chloroplasts have extream mass, which was basically a way for us to keep them in place:
Having chloroplasts contribute to total mass and size makes perfect sense. I would, however, make their contribution progressive: when the number of chloroplasts is small, then this contribution is small, but it gets progressively higher with each additional chloroplast.

26
Biology / Re: Need some input on my cholorplast algorithm
« on: January 08, 2013, 12:56:11 PM »
Can't comment on the exact values, but will say something about the concepts.

I agree that in general feeding veggies just because we called them veggies is not a great solution, ideally this should be a complex property that can be evolved and regulated by bots. So I applaud the effort.

Feeding:
I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with normalizing for average radius. Are you trying to setup some competition between bots for food? Does not make much sense, as the sim may have a very small number of bots, so competing for light would not make sense. But in general a competition for light is a nice idea. I would add up all the areas of all bots, normalize it by the size of the sim (dimensions) and then give out a preset amount of total energy in the sim distributed based on the number of chloroplasts in each bot. Setup a competition at that level if you want.

Adding, maintaining and removing chloroplasts:
You are right, these should cost energy to make and should either decompose with time (what you have now, and it's reasonable) or just cost energy to maintain at each cycle so that the bot has to carefully regulate how many it has (more biologically-accurate).

27
Off Topic / Re: Am I really Russian?
« on: January 08, 2013, 09:27:16 AM »
I have to say I like this to a degree, once you get used to it, it makes transliterated words easier to read than in some other approaches. Still, in this day and age, installing a Russian keyboard takes all of 5 seconds, and if you don't have admin privileges on your computer, then there are sites that will transform your translit into Russian letters. Anyone not typing Russian words in Russian is just not respecting their audience. But it's an interesting exercise, which may prove useful to some non-native speakers.

28
Off Topic / Re: Shvarz, Пожалуйста, помоги мне...
« on: January 08, 2013, 09:21:58 AM »
Sorry, don't really have time to actually run this or play with it. Don't even have DB installed anymore. If you have specific questions re:biology, I'd be happy to answer.

29
Newbie / Re: Hello! Привет!
« on: January 07, 2013, 12:39:58 PM »
I'm still dropping in now and then, keeping tabs on what's going on here.

Funny, after all these posts I had no idea Botsaureus was Russian :)

30
Darwinbots3 / Re: alive ?
« on: January 30, 2012, 10:56:35 AM »
Wow, I can't wait to see what it looks like! If that would motivate you, know that there's at least one fan who will d/l the version as soon as it's released :)


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