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Messages - Peksa

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The Gene depository / True Aiming using only physics
« on: April 02, 2009, 04:14:08 PM »
This is from my shot at true dog figher bot. I got as far as a funcional bot that allways faces up. It actually used .refaim for part of it's conspec.

*.refxpos *.refypos angle 314 sub - .aimshoot store

Trafalgar (he designed the monster-bot Guardian) did empirical studies and ended at shot speed 39. I recommend reading his posts if you intend to make a true aiming bot. Also I recommend reading abyaly's bot's, especially Aura.

The thing is, there isn't any costs on DNA and mutation probabilities have been tweaked to favor growing DNA from the start. It's allmost as if there's some unseen pressure towards shorter DNA.

Amplification mutations are implemented in some degree, but disabled. I remember that reimplementing them was on Eric's todo-list and pretty high at that.

That's right, the conspec recognition is still there.

The code is very short and pretty durable, -707 ~ *.refeye store. Only two bp's that really matter are *.refeye store. The species has 5 eyes and all the others zero. So every store for non-conspec is free and even if DNA gained or lost a couple of eyes, conspec recognition would still work.

Also shephers are so effective in cutting down population that they can't afford to kill each other. (The shepherd's are activated by a fuzzy population trigger and some randomness. They don't reward for good behaviour, only kill bot's when total population goes over a limit, currently at ~170)

Darwinbots3 / Darwinbots 3 Progress
« on: March 30, 2009, 05:08:47 AM »
Have you thought how sexual reproduction will be handled? I think it should be made somewhat easier than in DB2. I don't know if anyone's really tried, but it's really hard to get going in evolution sims and after that to preserve it.

Hi again! It's been a while since I've posted something or even logged on, but I've been reading the board pretty frequently. My time is pretty limited since in I'm in the army at the moment, but I've been running a simulation whenever I'm home.

I remember reading somewhere in the forums that viral evolution can be really fast and interesting so I decided to try it. I modified my first and only league bot to a shepherd bot to provide some evolution pressure and limit population and started a medium sized sim with modified Animal Minimalis and Alga Minimalis. I also tweaked mutation rates to preserve DNA length (default rates provide much more deleting mutations than inserting ones). Later I added a couple of shapes.

First thing I noticed that I had setup the virus all wrong and it quickly disappeared. I still decided to carry on with the sim and see where it would go. So after 17,8 million cycles and 1800 mutations I deciphered the new DNA and found the results somewhat disappointting.

The original DNA was this:
Code: [Select]

*.eye3 *.eye7 !=
*.eye3 *.eye7 sub .aimsx store

*.vel 10 !=
30 *.vel sub .up store

*.refeye *.myeye !=
*.eye5 0 > and
*.refvelup 30 add .up store
*.refveldx .dx store

*.eye5 50 > and
*.refvelup .up store
-1 .shoot store

*.nrg *.body >
30 .strbody store

*.body *.nrg >
100 .fdbody store

*.nrg 10000 >
33 .repro store



*.nrg 5000 >
*.vtimer 0 = and
*.thisgene .mkvirus store

*.vtimer 1 =
50 .vshoot store


And it turned into:
Code: [Select]


 *.eye2 -740 ++ over *.eye7 sqr *.eye7 ++ *.eye3

 -- start
 sub .aimleft store

 -2 abs -4 swap clearbool
 *272 -707

 ~ true
 *.refeye store

 *.eye5 63 *.refveldx swapbool
 .dx store
 mod store
 ~ inc
 *.trefvelyourdn 7 dup ceil dec
 >> pyth ++ sqr 6894 dropbool
 840 .repro store
 -394 sqr !=
 1 - store
 rnd -3 -675 or
 *.shoot !~=
 *.dx false

...which boils down to:

Code: [Select]
*.eye7 *.eye3 !=
*.eye3 *.eye7 sub .aimleft store

*.refveldx .dx store

*.refeye *.myeye = 'This was -707 ~ *.refeye store, but as alga minimalis and my shepherd have zero eyes, the errect is this.
706 .aimdx store

*.eye5 63 >
.dx inc
.shoot dec

40 .repro store

Theres some fuzziness in aiming, but the basic idea is this.

The sims been very stabile for a long while and that probably is the reason for this little evolution. Still, I'm a bit baffled how little 1800 mutations, 18 000 000 cycles and more than 40k generations changed the DNA. On the other hand, this shows that DNA can remain pretty much the same even in highly mutating enviroment of DB and with only 100-200 population.

Next I'm going to get DNA longer by tweaking mutation rates and see if something new will emerge.

Has anyone else had same kind of sims? Also, any thougths on how to spice up the sim are very much appreciated.

The sim is attached.

EDIT: Fixed the cleaned dna, I had missed one store.

Simulation Emporium / Co-Evolution
« on: October 26, 2008, 01:22:47 PM »
I've got co-evolution going on for 2,9M cycles in my current evosim. There's been some discussion on the forum about default rates of mutation being too high for stable evolution, so I've set it to 1/32 of normal rates and tweaked mutation probabilities a bit so that DNA should build up instead of shortening. Despite little mutations and slooow evolution, there's been intersting co-evolution. Veggies have moved constantly, moved away from bots, shot info-shots that interfered with hunting (stored 0 in .dx) and bots have managed to overcome every time. At the moment veggies use shell for defence. As for bots, I've pretty much managed to evolve Animal minimalis to C. Circumgirans again

The sim's got alga minimalis and animal minimalis with body/energy management. Animal minimalis has got 900 some generations and 80 mutations.  It's maybe a tad too little, but I want to see how it turns out. Veggie maxpop is at 20000 to allow natural population control, which has worked great. Total population has varied from ~1000 to ~6000. Costs are nearly F1 and veggies get 8 nrg/cycle/kilobodypoint.

The only problem is that the sim is really slow to run, from 0,5 to 3 cycles per sec on my computer and I'm in the army (There's compulsory military service in Finland) at the moment, so I can only run it on weekends. That combined with very slow evolution it gets a bit boring at times. I plan on running the sim as much as I can until my patience runs out. With so small mutation rates devolution shouldn't be a problem so in the long run there should be some nice evolution. I hope.

The sim's attached.

I think amplification mutations are currently disabled, but are on todo-list.

Darwinbots3 / Mutation protection
« on: October 08, 2008, 04:26:04 PM »
how about a new sysvar? 10 .protect store would protect next 10 bps from mutations, either  from 90%, 95%, 100% or some other pre-set percantage of mutations. Both 10 and .protect would be suspectible to mutations. No meta DNA and simple enough. It would be pain to count the bps from programmers point of view but I think it would do well in evolved DNA.

Bugs and fixes / Generation count not working OPEN
« on: September 20, 2008, 08:40:05 PM »
I've been running a sim for a couple million cycles now, but every bot in the sim seems to have generation count of seven, regardless of age or any other thing. I remember noticing this in earlier versions, but it never bothered me so I let it be.
EDIT: Now that I look at it, it seems that generation count is stuck on any sim I start. Maybe it has something to do with my settings? I can't think of any setting that could cause it though.

I don't know if it's related but I can't activate generational graph. It might also mess up automatic species forking.

On another note, genetic distance for both veggies and bots is something like 1-2, which is possible but sounds too small for me.

Bugs and fixes / Mutation in league mode OPEN
« on: June 23, 2008, 03:41:53 PM »
Or at least I think it is a mutation. At the end of DNA of the selected bot in the attached picture is DNA sequence that no other bot has or I haven't added. It also has void in it, so it may be another bug. It messes up the bot's conspec system and that's how I noticed it.

The bot in sim is a work in progress that I was testing as I coded it.

Simulation Emporium / my first evo sim
« on: June 23, 2008, 01:23:15 PM »
Quote from: ikke
Passed 10 M cycles (~60.000 generations). No new major changes observed, so I stopped the sim. It's like watching grass grow. No new huntig tactics, no improved eyesight nothing of the sort. Probably more improvements in the existing genes than I identified, but nothing new. Now I now why it 3 billion years befor the cambrian explosion took place, and why so many genes can be traced back to the explosion: truely new genes take a looong time to develop.

I programmed some of the evolved characteristics in the original bots and restarted. One thing I hadn't noticed: the reproductive genes have become less fragile. The original cond statements are barely recognisable after 10 M cycles. The new code is definitely functional. The original code breaks quite often, resulting in an explosion of bots dividing and dividing. In the evolved versions this is gone, mutations don't result in the same breakdown. No idea how. Another point is that not every mutation is an improvement. Somewhere along the line animais stopped rotating when seeing his own species. You can often see pairs of animalis endlessly looking in each others deep blue eyes. Not an optimal hunting strategy, but either coincidence or the development of some other improvement made this strain dominant.

In every sim I've run or read about (except internet mode), eventually de-evolution has overcome evolution as has happened with your animal minimalis. Solutions to this could be increasing population size to thousands, decreasing mutation probabilities (to something like 1/8 or less of default settings, probably) or provide strong enough evolutionary pressure by competition or shepherd bots or some other way. Sexual reproduction also helps, but in my sims it has been replaced by faster asexual reproduction. It has taken some time though.

Quote from: ikke
Next step: a death match between evolution and ID: will the evolved strains outcompete the GM versions?

I'd like to know the results of this. It's quite usual for the evolved strain to be less fit, but more resistant to mutations. See survival of the flattest.

Bugs and fixes / Crash when loading a sim OPEN
« on: June 23, 2008, 01:22:01 PM »
Some of my recent saves of this sim crash DB when trying to load it. I've got no idea what causes it. It could have something to do with large field size or population or both.

DNA - General / How does body mass affect the final speed of a bot?
« on: May 29, 2008, 02:38:43 PM »
Heh, of course. I think I read in an other thread about moving at full speed without maxvel, so I assumed this was about it.

DNA - General / How does body mass affect the final speed of a bot?
« on: May 27, 2008, 10:30:45 AM »
8 .up store will work. I think that'll waste some energy though.

I haven't tested this, but following could work..

Code: [Select]
*.vel *.lastspeed !=
*.vel 0 != and
10 .up store
*.veldx .sx store
*.vel .lastspeed store

Bug reports / trefnrg returning 0
« on: May 15, 2008, 06:57:06 PM »
Quote from: Trafalgar
I want it to always read the last tie to tie to it, basically, since if it IS another bot tying to it, it needs to be able to see if it's friendly and if not, delete the tie before the other bot can do anything nasty (like setting shootval to 31999).

Doesn't *.tiepres .readtie store do that?

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