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Messages - Peksa

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31
Biology / .delgene in Real Life
« on: May 05, 2008, 07:16:07 PM »
I take it that there are some immune systemic stem cells that reproduce endlessly and the new cells have just one type of antibody? I've wondered how immune system produces so many different types of antibodies. Two birds with one stone, it seems.

32
Hmm.. I remember doing some tests earlier and I got negative values from mod somehow. I'll check this later.

33
Bot Challenges / Conspec Challenge
« on: May 05, 2008, 07:02:39 PM »
There's a bunch more refvars, like .refdx or .refdn, but I guess using them would be unsportsmanlike

34
Newbie / Evolution sims
« on: May 05, 2008, 06:59:30 PM »
Evo sims are much easier to run than a while ago becouse of the great performance increases.

I've got an evosim with 2,9M cycles. The bot's started as Animal Minimalis modified to sexually reproduce without conditions and move randomly. Veggies used to be C. Circumgirans with shooting gene removed and body management added, but I've edited them since. At the moment they randomly use 3 different kinds of poison, turn away from shooting and move almost straight forward. It's a largish (size 12), non-toroidal map with some shapes in one corner. The only costs are ageing costs that increase very slowly after 10 kc and high body costs, 16 nrg/c/kBodypoint. With 1000 cycle days and nights, the costs take heavy toll on veggies, but they manage and would survive overnight if bots would let them. Also, I've altered mutation rates to slightly favor DNA insertion rather than clearly favor deletion. To top it off, I set mutations at 0.25. Oh, and there's slowly decaying corpses in there too.

It's suprising how well they adapt and how little they break. Of course, at start mutations broke down everything that wasn't necessary, but a bit suprisingly maintained basicly the same behaviour. Whole population learned to not to shoot shapes in matter of tens of thousands of cycles and actually stayed at certain distance from them after a couple hundred thousand cycles. The latter broke down though after introducing harder-to-eat-and-poison-using veggies that mess with bots' conspec recoginition. Bots seem to hunt in "packs". When a veggie pops in, bots chase it or the bot's chasing it (any moving bots really) and when the veggie turns and tries to lose the bots, some of the bots usually catch a sight of it and start chasing it and other bots start chasing the chaser or chaser of chaser etc.

All this comes from simply optimizing simple DNA and changing a BP here and another there. Average mutations are at 200 at the moment. There's half a dozen stores that are really hard to decipher, but I'm fairly certain that they don't do anything. Because of the sexual reproduction and low mutation rates, I've actually seen average mutations get lower with time a few times.

Another thing I've noticed is that species diversity to population rate is constantly around 0.4, when in sims with asexual reproduction it is much lower, 0.3 or 0.2. That's not really that suprising, but it's still nice to see that .sexrepro makes a real difference.

As I've lost hope to have a stable veggie-bot cycle with co-evolution in this sim, I'm concentrating on giving bots more diversified enviroment. I'll make veggies tougher and repop them more rarely and give them different behaviours to choose from, decrease corpse decay rate, maybe add some more shapes and anything else I can think of.

35
I agree with pretty much everything said here. For eyes, it could be a bit overpowered, but for ties it sounds good.

36
I looked at mutation details from a brown bot and a red bot and discovered that their last common maternal ancestor was 700 kc ago! After looking at a couple of different bots I found the last common maternal ancestor with different colours to be 300-700 kc in the past. That's only maternal line, but I still think it's quite neat.

DNA's were actually quite different, but the core functions almost the same. Number of eyes was the same as it's used for conspec recognition, but there were some differences in conditions for different genes.

37
Biology / .delgene in Real Life
« on: May 01, 2008, 07:14:15 PM »
DB DNA is somewhat based on what real organisms can do and the things real organsims can do never cease to suprise me, so I'm wondering if there's match for .delgene in real biology? And is there some mechanism that could be described as .addgene?

38
No the colour has changed, but very little. About half of the bots are reddish brown and the rest slightly lighter red than the default. Theres also small number of other shades of red.

Sexual reproduction in itself doesn't increase the mutation count. Mutation details show more than 400 lines, most of them info on .sexrepro, and the bot's mutation counter is at 135. Actually 4 to 1 ratio seems to fit the mutation details list.

I'm a bit against adding a new category for non-mutation genome changing stuff. I don't know if the info is really relevant and it could be dug from mutation details. I'm all for including .delgene in mutation counter if it shows up in mutation details too.

39
Suggestions / A way to edit bot's starting body
« on: May 01, 2008, 06:58:55 PM »
We can decide how much energy we want to give a new bot, but body is defaulted at 1000. Body is as important value for a bot as energy, so it would be nice to be able to modify it.

40
Simulation Emporium / Ways to increase natural selection?
« on: May 01, 2008, 06:54:24 PM »
Average fitness of species depends on two factors. Mutations mostly reduce fitness by breaking and mutation DNA and natural selection increases fitness, favoring those whose genomes survive better. In basic DB sim the enviroment isn't very complicated and doesn't encourage very complicated behaviour. What I'm hoping for is some simple or not-so-simple ways to encourage evolution of more interesting bots.

Off the top of my head, I can think of enabling corpse mode with low enough decay rate, adding some shapes that bots can see, running non-toroidal sim or running a sim in internet mode. Of course, creating a stable ecosystem with two or more species co-evolving would be the ultimate goal, but that's a tad hard to archieve.

41
With .repro and .mrepro it seems to change a tiny bit with mutations, but how is it determined when using .sexrepro? I've got a long running sim with more than hundred averagemutations, but the colour of the bots hasn't really changed from the original red.

42
DB Art / Seasnake
« on: May 01, 2008, 05:54:38 PM »
Quote from: EricL
Seasnake 1.2 shoots it's entire genome as a virus, which turns other species into cells of the greater multibot.  Here a veggy has been co-opted and incorporated as a cell into the larger organism, providing veggy power to the multibot as well as acting as a integrated cell.

Nice. It screws up graphs and leagues though. It could be possible to actual seasnake species to die out, but have the DNA survive and continue to evolve

43
Suggestions / .sexrepro reimplemented in 2.43.1
« on: May 01, 2008, 05:50:26 PM »
I've been running an evosim with sexually reproducing bots for 1,3M cycles now.

As usual, mutations have broken everything that isn't absolutely necessary for survival and now I'm hoping to see some improvement in the next few million cycles. I set up the bots to fertilize bots of their own species when they had over 2 body. Basicly evolved DNA's behaviour is very much the same as the original, it just uses less bp to do it so mutations have lower probability to break something down.

I've just added shapes that bots can see in one corner of the sim (size 12) and maybe, just maybe they'll evolve more conditions for shooting. That'd be a killer.

The problem is, there isn't any evolution for veggies as bots depend heavily (well, fully) on repopping veggies and kill them quickly. Bots are just adapting to stable conditions. One idea I've been toying with is to add multiple types of veggies to provide a little bit of variety. I think veggie repop randomly chooses which one to drop in. With large enough fields, larger than size 12, it should be possible to create at least semi-stable ecosystem. Thats really hard to hand-code as the species have to be efficient enough to survive and inefficient enough to let some of the other to live too.

I've attached the evosim if someone wants a look at it. It's nothing special really, just the .sexrepro.

44
Bugs and fixes / Courrupted .sim files RESOLVED 2.43.1k
« on: May 01, 2008, 05:22:48 PM »
Great, thanks! It works great.

45
Bugs and fixes / Courrupted .sim files RESOLVED 2.43.1k
« on: May 01, 2008, 04:36:24 AM »
I don't think .sexrepro caused this. My other long running sim developed the same problem. Luckily, I noticed this before all autosaves did the same. The other sim with defunct .sim file is attached.

I'll try to save without mutation details and see if it helps.

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