Darwinbots Forum

General => Off Topic => DB Art => Topic started by: EricL on April 21, 2008, 05:22:54 PM

Title: Seasnake
Post by: EricL on April 21, 2008, 05:22:54 PM
Primitive multibots snake through a field of veggies
Title: Seasnake
Post by: fulizer on April 23, 2008, 08:48:40 AM
not very primative looking?
how many genes does that bot have?
anyway very cool cant stop wondering how long until its in the biestery
Title: Seasnake
Post by: asterixx on April 23, 2008, 05:41:32 PM
How is that being achieved? Could show the DNA?
Title: Seasnake
Post by: EricL on April 23, 2008, 07:40:49 PM
The DNA is here. (http://www.darwinbots.com/Forum/index.php?showtopic=2679)

It has a single gene, but many different functional blocks with their own conditional triggerring sections.
Title: Seasnake
Post by: fulizer on April 25, 2008, 08:48:53 AM
still cool never wont be...
at least util updates break it
ill have to use this to fine tune hunterbots
Title: Seasnake
Post by: EricL on May 01, 2008, 02:37:24 PM
Seasnake 1.2 shoots it's entire genome as a virus, which turns other species into cells of the greater multibot.  Here a veggy has been co-opted and incorporated as a cell into the larger organism, providing veggy power to the multibot as well as acting as a integrated cell.
Title: Seasnake
Post by: Peksa on May 01, 2008, 05:54:38 PM
Quote from: EricL
Seasnake 1.2 shoots it's entire genome as a virus, which turns other species into cells of the greater multibot.  Here a veggy has been co-opted and incorporated as a cell into the larger organism, providing veggy power to the multibot as well as acting as a integrated cell.

Nice. It screws up graphs and leagues though. It could be possible to actual seasnake species to die out, but have the DNA survive and continue to evolve
Title: Seasnake
Post by: Numsgil on May 01, 2008, 06:06:25 PM
Do two separate snake macro organisms ever combine in to a single snake?
Title: Seasnake
Post by: EricL on May 01, 2008, 06:32:29 PM
Quote from: Peksa
Nice. It screws up graphs and leagues though. It could be possible to actual seasnake species to die out, but have the DNA survive and continue to evolve
Absolutely.  The dynamic is really interesting.  In IM, Seasnake is marked not to mutate and it uses .dnalen for conspec recognition.  But when it co-opts other species as cells, those can mutate.  A mutation changes changes the dna length and they start fighting against the original snakes with the full power of their (slightly modified) genome!  Once passive veggies become cells become compitiors and starve out the origninal strain.   In a prior version, the snakes were almost wiped out by their own renegade genome running in the shell of other species!  Now, version 1.2 kills itself if the DNA length changes to avoid this, but its still possible a mutation will disable the self destuct and once this happens, that mutate strain could spread and wipe out the original species as before.

There's a few lessons here I think:  

Evolution finds a way. It's often better to mutate so you can adapt then not to.

Arm's races are critical to preserving and enhancing complexity.  Competing against yourself (I.e. a genome very close to you but with slightly different conspec code) is the ultimate in selection pressure.  The compeitiors are so closely matched that any reduction in functionality due to deleterious mutations is heavily selected against.  Only benifical mutations survive.  

If you can't beat em, starve em.   There's lots of ways to compete.  Being the best killer is just one.  Taking away anothers food source is just as effective.
Title: Seasnake
Post by: EricL on May 01, 2008, 06:45:00 PM
Quote from: Numsgil
Do two separate snake macro organisms ever combine in to a single snake?
Absolutely.  Each cell is bascially a stem cell.  It can do things on it's own like move and hunt and feed, but it also looks for conspeces.  Each has a random number.  Smaller numberred cells will hook onto the back of ones with larger numbers.  So when the head of one snake sees the tail of another and that number is higher, two snakes will merge.  Once a cell is part of a snake, it takes on a role depending upon it's position in the snake: head, tail, middle.  The role dictates what it can and can't when part of a snake.  Only the head navigates and initiates movement for example, the middle and tail only follow the leader, only tails reproduce, etc.  Children produced by a tail inherit a number one less than the parent and automatically attach to the end of the snake (unless soemthign disrupts this during those first few critical cycles after birth) becoming a new tail and growing the snake...  So, snakes grow both via the eqivalent of cell division (by the tail cell) and dynamic assembly of lone (potentially hijacked) cells or smaller snakes into larger ones.

This IMHO is the only robust way to build multibots I.e. as autonomous single celled entites which can self assemble and assume a role in a larger organism dynamically.  I think it sheds light on how multi cellularity emerged in nature I.e. via loose cooperation between single celled organisms which discoverred over time the advantages of specialization.
Title: Seasnake
Post by: Numsgil on May 01, 2008, 06:58:11 PM
What if there are two snakes, each with 3 bots, and snake 1's IDs are:

15, 10, 5

and snake 2's IDs are:

13, 7, 3

Those two snakes can never merge, can they?  Either way, it's by a large measure the neatest MB (maybe even bot) I've ever seen
Title: Seasnake
Post by: EricL on May 01, 2008, 07:11:01 PM
Quote from: Numsgil
What if there are two snakes, each with 3 bots, and snake 1's IDs are:

15, 10, 5

and snake 2's IDs are:

13, 7, 3

Those two snakes can never merge, can they?

When a cell becomes part of a snake, it sets an "external" number that is one less than the cell in front of it.  This external number governs the merge decision.  THe original internal random nubmer is still used for other things  like referencing ties, but the snakes above become for all intents:

15, 14, 13

13, 12, 11

In this case, they still won't ever merge, but at least the probabilty of merging is a lot higher.  That's largly by design.  I could have any head attach to any tail, but you then need logic not to attach to your own tail when and if you see it, which I have, but there's still a bug or two there.  Also, I wanted a number of snakes, not necessarily one super huge one although in practice, teleportation and edge respawning chops big snakes up into 50 cell ones...

Quote from: Numsgil
Either way, it's by a large measure the neatest MB (maybe even bot) I've ever seen
Thanks!  It's been a hoot building it (future versions will be forthcoming) and I've found and fixed a ton of bugs in the simulator as a result.  
Title: Seasnake
Post by: bacillus on May 01, 2008, 09:32:13 PM
This reminds me of the snake in a game called Fl0w. I thought of emulating the lellyfish, just by having a large cell with lots of tiny bots pulsating around it, but it didn't work as well.
Title: Seasnake
Post by: Testlund on May 02, 2008, 06:04:06 AM
Quote
Seasnake 1.2 shoots it's entire genome as a virus, which turns other species into cells of the greater multibot. Here a veggy has been co-opted and incorporated as a cell into the larger organism, providing veggy power to the multibot as well as acting as a integrated cell.

I saw this in action last night. I decided to start a new sim with costs set to 0 so I at least could get a glimpse of your fancy bots. The veggie detached itself and started hunting a little. Later when my population reached above 3200 where I had set costs to start increasing, the action was over.  
Title: Seasnake
Post by: Blacksmith on May 02, 2008, 08:32:17 PM
Quote from: Peksa
Nice. It screws up graphs and leagues though. It could be possible to actual seasnake species to die out, but have the DNA survive and continue to evolve

That is IF any thing could kill the snake bot, which I havenet found anything like that yet.
Title: Seasnake
Post by: Moonfisher on May 04, 2008, 05:51:20 AM
Once you controll the alge all newcomers will realy have to fight to get food, so their chances of taking over a reather small...
Spinner v1.5 seems to fool the conspec of Seasnake 1.0, but I still think it would have a hard time actualy taking over a sim full of infected seasnake alge...
Maybe Lovebot has a chance, since it uses sexrepro as a weapon and gets fed by the alge... it might have a shot at takig over some alge and gain a foothold...
(Although last time I ran it for a long time they ended up accidently raping eachother and spawned a bot that attacked everything all the time)
Title: Seasnake
Post by: jknilinux on October 04, 2008, 08:36:01 PM
Hey Ericl,

Would you mind posting that latest version in the Bestiary? The one currently in there is just 1.0. Thanks!
Title: Seasnake
Post by: bacillus on October 05, 2008, 03:42:09 AM
And hints on making multibots stronger? Triblois beats version 1.0 (I'm hoping it'll establish itself well in F2), but only through strength in numbers and its new anti-MB feature. If one Seasnake gets a foothold, it'll take over for a while, somehow the venom, poison and the like don't affect it.
Title: Seasnake
Post by: De-Maskus on October 05, 2008, 03:23:21 PM
Have you posted the Seasnake 1.2 DNA yet? I'd love to run it on my machine sometime.
Title: Seasnake
Post by: bacillus on October 05, 2008, 05:14:45 PM
And I'd love to modify Tribolis
Title: Seasnake
Post by: De-Maskus on October 05, 2008, 05:41:54 PM
Does anyone have the unmutated seasnake 1.2? Im running 1.0 against the republican bees, and the results are disappointing. seasnake should be able to decimate the bees but they get in front of it making it stop, and the slower, larger bees then have enough time to get to the snake and eat it like algae
Title: Re: Seasnake
Post by: SlyStalker on March 20, 2013, 03:20:40 AM
it would be awesome if the 'body' robots behave like those cool turbolaser turrets on the death star in star wars  :D