Darwinbots Forum
General => Leagues => Formula 2 => Topic started by: PurpleYouko on April 04, 2005, 01:42:24 PM
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The current league is SOOOOOO out of date now but with the advent of a pretty usable version (2.36.1) of DB, it is now about time to start bringing it up to date.
Here are the rules and settings that will be used to establish the league order.
Settings!- Field size 9237 X 6928. If you can't figure out how to get this (non standard size), just click the "Restart and Leagues" tab from the options window then check the "Use F1 conditions" box. If you don't want to run the leagues, simply uncheck it again and the size setting will stay the same.
- Starting chloroplasts = 16000
- Veggie feeding rate = 30
- Maximum veggies = 25
- Respawn veggies = 10
- Kill distant Vaggies = OFF
- Corpses = OFF
- Pond mode = OFF
- Day Night cycles = OFF
- Bouyancy = OFF
- Friction = 3
- Gravity = zero
- Brownian Motion = zero
- Mutations = ALL Disabled
- Internet sharing = OFF
- Weather = ON
- Costs = F1 Default
Selecting the "Set F2/F3/MB settings" button will automatically set these.
You can set league disqualifications from global settings.
Rules!- No tie feeding allowed! You may not fire a tie then feed through it. You may not feed through a tie that has been fired at you! You may not share energy through a tie with an adversary or a veggie but you may share with your own species.
- You MAY cause an adversary robot to give you his energy through HIS tie (Commonly known as Leaching) by means of reprogramming his DNA with shots, ties, poison or venom.
- You MAY fire ties for other purposes such as injecting venom or holding another robot still while you shoot it.
- No viruses of any kind allowed.
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Kill distant Vaggies = OFF
I think you mean Kill Distant Veggies = OFF
thats almost as bad as when bot said:
You should attack your file
Also...surely leeching (which you said is allowed) is the same as feeding through a tie fired at you...(Isn't it? which you said was banned)
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The reason I am dropping it is because you can get away with disqualifying your competition by forcing it to do nutty stuff.
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The reason I am dropping it is because you can get away with disqualifying your competition by forcing it to do nutty stuff.
Or deny Infoshot, Leech/Counter-Leech & Viruses and allow tiefeeding...(maybe energy only?)
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Possible. Ty.
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Although, at that point, just call it the damn F3 league, no?
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Although, at that point, just call it the damn F3 league, no?
Ok just deny leech & counter leech and allow infoshot and tiefeed. poof.
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:)
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If I understand correctly the issue is that the automated disqualification won't distinguish between your own code trying to leech and someone else forcing you to do it via info shots or a tie.
The current rules don't entirely prevent this I think, and counter leeching is much stronger than leeching as it allows a very small bot to swallow a large vegy in seconds.
One way you would be able to completely prevent anyone from forcing someone to make an illegal move would be to ban both info shots, ties and venom.
But then it would just be the F3 league with shell and poison though. Not a very big difference.
Would it be possible to tell if a bot is acting of it's own free will or if another bot manipulated it to break the rules?
Also what should happen if a bot forces another bot to use .mrepro and that accidentally causes the other bot to break the rules?
The alternative to disallowing all info shots and ties would be to not allow actions that are causing tie feeding or leaching.
So obviously any direct feeding or sharing of energy would be banned, but also firing info shots (or using a tie) that would place a value into .sharenrg or place the values -1 or -6 into .tieloc. That way you can still have a counter leeching gene, but it will not get triggered unless another bot tried to leech off you. (This is useful for F2 bots who also compete in F1)
Of course then you run into another problem, what if someone is using a tie to force another bot to fire an info shot forcing -1 into .tieloc.
And if you ban that, then what about someone forcing another bot to break that rule?
It seems like no matter what rules you add, someone could force other bots to break those rules...
And even then there would still be a risk of a bot being disqualified after being forced to use .mrepro and having the poor luck of this resulting in an illegal move.
As far as I can tell there are only 2 completely safe ways out of this:
1. Ban forming ties, memory shots and venom (Leaving only shell and poison I think)
2. Detect if the illegal move was caused by another bot interfering with the code execution or a mutation of the code. (In which case the rules would be able to stay the same I think)
(Also don't forget .sexrepro is also banned in F2, it can basically be used as a virus that you can aim, can't be blocked by slime and requires no charge time. This was sugested first when Lovebot was entered in F2 and made official when Abyaly made Saber and it took first place in both F1 and F2 :P)
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If I understand correctly the issue is that the automated disqualification won't distinguish between your own code trying to leech and someone else forcing you to do it via info shots or a tie.
The current rules don't entirely prevent this I think, and counter leeching is much stronger than leeching as it allows a very small bot to swallow a large vegy in seconds.
One way you would be able to completely prevent anyone from forcing someone to make an illegal move would be to ban both info shots, ties and venom.
But then it would just be the F3 league with shell and poison though. Not a very big difference.
Would it be possible to tell if a bot is acting of it's own free will or if another bot manipulated it to break the rules?
Also what should happen if a bot forces another bot to use .mrepro and that accidentally causes the other bot to break the rules?
The alternative to disallowing all info shots and ties would be to not allow actions that are causing tie feeding or leaching.
So obviously any direct feeding or sharing of energy would be banned, but also firing info shots (or using a tie) that would place a value into .sharenrg or place the values -1 or -6 into .tieloc. That way you can still have a counter leeching gene, but it will not get triggered unless another bot tried to leech off you. (This is useful for F2 bots who also compete in F1)
Of course then you run into another problem, what if someone is using a tie to force another bot to fire an info shot forcing -1 into .tieloc.
And if you ban that, then what about someone forcing another bot to break that rule?
It seems like no matter what rules you add, someone could force other bots to break those rules...
And even then there would still be a risk of a bot being disqualified after being forced to use .mrepro and having the poor luck of this resulting in an illegal move.
As far as I can tell there are only 2 completely safe ways out of this:
1. Ban forming ties, memory shots and venom (Leaving only shell and poison I think)
2. Detect if the illegal move was caused by another bot interfering with the code execution or a mutation of the code. (In which case the rules would be able to stay the same I think)
(Also don't forget .sexrepro is also banned in F2, it can basically be used as a virus that you can aim, can't be blocked by slime and requires no charge time. This was sugested first when Lovebot was entered in F2 and made official when Abyaly made Saber and it took first place in both F1 and F2 :P)
Or just switch some things that are banned and unbanned around...a sort of new F2 so you have the basic tiefeed and such allowed, but leeching disallowed, keeping it nearly the same, Anyway, A bot could tie, then use the tie they fired to leech (via a leech script triggered after tie is fired) creating another alternate system around rules...
OFFTOPIC: Who would want to see a pondmode version of the leagues (so P1 P2 P3)?
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But the problem with the automated rules is that you can force other bots to break those rules. You could make a disqualifier bot that simply wins by making it's opponent break a rule, it wouldn't even need to fight.
So if you have an auto detect on broken rules, you need to make sure you also disallow any actions that could be used to make your opponent break that rule.
I did actually think about one way to put this together.
If you say tie feeding, leeching and counter leeching is illegal, then you could also include that oponents are not allowed to fire a memory/venom shot either aimed at .tieloc of with the value of .tieloc in it, and the same would go for ties, you can not manipulate .tieloc and you can not apply the value of .tieloc.
This should prevent anyone from forcing others to break the tie leeching rules.
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mhm. It would...
offtopic: Oh moon, would you mind going to the starting gate and having a look at the code for all eyes 1.5, I don't know whats so...energy expensive in it...Its a supreme bot without costs applied...but almost instantly dies with costs...
(the same for all swarm actually.)