Messages

31

Darwinbots3 / Re: DB3 Leagues

« on: April 12, 2015, 11:10:52 AM »

There's need of some boilerplate code to keep track of all players.

Btw, I'm curious how well Elo/TrueSkill/Glicko/win% compare when matches are picked at random.

32

Darwinbots3 / Re: About Darwinbots3

« on: April 12, 2015, 11:06:50 AM »

Updating existing things seems necessary. I'm animating the slipstream testbed a few seconds and I'm up to a few MB.
Normally it doesn't do any updates between cycles, does it?

Also, svg doesn't seem to want to take affine matrix into animations. Is there a method to calculate the angle/scaling I'm overlooking?

33

Darwinbots3 / Re: DB3 Leagues

« on: April 12, 2015, 10:41:11 AM »

Is this 1 player vs 4 players (including the original player) pitted against each other randomly 10000 times, or 1 player pitted against 10000 players? Just trying to work our how you'd do the elo in the second situation.

The second, you can nearly throw all of it away if you want to do elo. 

34

Darwinbots3 / Re: DB3 Leagues

« on: April 11, 2015, 02:59:37 PM »

Python2, apparently it's still the default it starts up on my machine. Good to see they covered it in python3.

I don't think it should be randomly chosen from all bots. I like to have the upper bots to be able to fight each other enough to have a good leaguetable. I think fights should be randomly picked between positions, like if a bit is ranked #100, his opponent may be between #50 and #150. Fights are more even and will tell more, pinpointing the strength more clearly.

Assuming you got a large amount of bots that are weak. A decent(but not great) lucky bot can get a high win percentage with some luck. Can be compensated  eventually with more random fights, but Elo like wouldn't give him that advantage in the first place.

35

Darwinbots3 / Re: DB3 Leagues

« on: April 11, 2015, 01:36:30 PM »

I'm not sure but I think Elo might handle that case better.  But if it doesn't, it means I might lean towards using the straight win rates because there's no math involved in that.  But I'd have to play with it to know for sure.

A big advantage of Elo and alike over win rates is that wins from higher ranked players are valued more. With winrates if you beat the #2 and lost from the #1, you're mediocre. You beat 2 bots that can't even survive, you're amazing!

Edit: the code got a mistake. It's rounding the wins/matches to a int, getting zero.

36

Darwinbots3 / Re: About Darwinbots3

« on: April 11, 2015, 01:24:00 PM »

I did a scale(1,-1) on all objects and that seemed to put it back into perspective, didn't (yet) find where to extract it the proper transformation from. :x

Is there some kind of unique identifier for the objects? As to be able to 'follow' movements for objects, know that this rectangle drawn is the same as the rectangle in a previous frame, but at a different location/angle.

37

Darwinbots3 / Re: DB3 Leagues

« on: April 10, 2015, 12:04:11 PM »

A specific league for an "all round bot"? I think that's a brilliant idea but I foresee problems with computation times.

Not necessarily, the fights would just have another random attribute, the map and physics. It doesn't have to take more computation time.

So are you saying F1 should be a "all round" or it would be different?

Aye,as a F1 league. Yet, although I like the idea of having a all round F1 league, it's one of those things that may seen good in theory, but sucks in practice. But  support for different league versions seems nice.

38

Darwinbots3 / Re: DB3 Leagues

« on: April 10, 2015, 09:48:47 AM »

A specific league for an "all round bot"? I think that's a brilliant idea but I foresee problems with computation times.

Not necessarily, the fights would just have another random attribute, the map and physics. It doesn't have to take more computation time.

I expect fights not to have a definite win/lose like in db2. Continuing till you hit 95% confidence. But let the rating system take care of it, so a fight is just one fight.
 

Prehaps a system where, when a new bot reaches a certain rating (possibly above the worst bot in the "top league"), it can be entered into the "top league" and pitted against each one of the bots and then placed (or not placed) in the league accordingly? Unless that is what you were trying to say?

Is one possibility. You could also extend the "top league" with one more bot each time the ranking in the "top league" is rock solid, or even decrease if multiple new strong bots appear.

39

Darwinbots3 / Re: DB3 Leagues

« on: April 10, 2015, 09:10:48 AM »

I assume everyone naming Elo means a statistical model instead of just Elo. From a quick search Glicko, TrueSkill and Elo are the ones where libraries are plenty available.

Trueskill has the advantage it could rate "free for all" fights. Which may be handy for newer bots to quickly rise on the league table.

Also how about multiple fight maps, size, shapes and different physics. Means a bot need to survive in different environments. A all round bot.

A round robin-like for the top bots seems logically. Might enforce a higher confidence/reliability level in a rating model for the top bots to create it naturally. Not sure if it needs to happen often, once in place positions would be rather static. Which has the advantage to extend the round robin more down.

40

Darwinbots3 / Re: DB3 Leagues

« on: April 09, 2015, 05:40:31 PM »

A tournament like would have to repeat itself every time. That would drain cpu resources.

I like some parts of how it was done in the last google AI challenge.

They had a elo rating.
New versions were treated like new bots, i.e. elo rating is reset.
There was a (simple) test to be allowed at all to the league.
It was automatic.

41

Darwinbots3 / Re: About Darwinbots3

« on: April 09, 2015, 04:56:08 PM »

I don't have a clue, google search seem to point to top left.

Numbering goes up down and to the right anyway. Top left are the lowest coordinates.

42

Darwinbots3 / Re: About Darwinbots3

« on: April 09, 2015, 04:46:08 PM »

Silly issue. The svg I generate is upside down mirrored when I compare it with the dx9 version. I'm likely switching some parameters around, but I don't know which ones.

With the w3c link.
W3C says: matrix(<a> <b> <c> <d> <e> <f>)
I'm using : matrix(M00,M10,M01,M11,M02,M12)

edit: added dx9.png

43

Darwinbots3 / Re: About Darwinbots3

« on: April 09, 2015, 03:12:36 AM »

I think the g element gets close. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/SVG/Element/g

44

Darwinbots3 / Re: About Darwinbots3

« on: April 08, 2015, 04:18:02 PM »

For the actual drawable objects all I need is the DrawPrimitive and AffineMatrix(from EnqueueDrawable), correct?
In affineMatrix I see 6 Scalars or 3 Vectors. How to draw a circle or rectangle from it? I tried to extract it from it's being used in the DX version, but that didn't make it more clear for me.

Basically a ellipse got the following tags in svg. How would it match with the objects going in?
cx x-pos
cy y-pos
rx x-size
ry y-size
size

A rectangle
width
height
x x-pos
y y-pos

A polygon
A list of points

45

Darwinbots3 / Re: Command Shortcutting

« on: April 07, 2015, 04:06:33 PM »

Sorry, aimed at spike.