Messages

556

Suggestions / Relativity Mode

« on: October 15, 2005, 02:02:39 AM »

ive heard of it in a book about higher dimensions. and yes it would look like it, I´ll read it griz, thank you.
btw griz, do you know that if you change ur Z to a S it becomes the swedish word for pig?

that's why it's a Z and not an S ...
griz is short for Grizzly ... ursus horibilis ...
literally, "bear horrible" ...
very a large n.american omnivore ...
that eats just about anything that crosses it's path.

hmmmm ...
may have to name my first killer bot ursus horibilis. ;) hehehe

~griz~

557

Suggestions / links to DarwinBots

« on: October 14, 2005, 07:36:26 PM »

I always wanted to get one of the creatures games, but could never find one.

talk to GreenReaper there:
http://creatures.wikicities.com/wiki/User_talk:GreenReaper
he can probably set you up.
he's a pretty heavy duty programmer himself ...
and might be interested in DB ...

~griz~

558

Suggestions / Electric

« on: October 14, 2005, 07:30:57 PM »

Zelos has a good excuse though, he doesn't livein the US or UK, or any other natively English speaking locale.

no slam on Zelos there ...
just happy to see Bots making a joke and laughing at himself.
I thought that was pretty funny.

I only speak english ...
(and have lapses even there) ...
and still stuggle to write/read chinese after 30 years. ;)
so my hat is off to anyone who is able to communicate in
any language that is not their native tongue.
that is a big part of what I love about the internet ...
meeting folks from all around the world ...
coming together to share a common interest ...
be it to talk programming or raytacing or philosophy or
religion or music or making beer or ....
what have you ...
tearing down those barriers that out 'leaders' and politicians
like to erect between all us real folks out here.  
power to the people! ;)

~griz~
(an old 60's hippie who survived to tell the tale) :lol:

559

Suggestions / links to DarwinBots

« on: October 14, 2005, 07:16:20 PM »

DarwinBots minions, non minions and other notables ...

stashed the DarwinBots links at a few places ...
and will continue to pass it along to those I know who are interested in
programming and graphics ... encouraging them to check it out and
spread the word as well.

http://peace.wikicities.com/wiki/Designers
http://creatures.wikicities.com/wiki/Creatures_Wiki_Homepage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_li...nism_Simulators
and added the new Wiki link to Wikipedia Darwinbots.

in the process I came across something I posted long ago ...
an excerpt from Steve Grand  which echoes my own
thoughts  on the difference between AI and ALife.
so here it be for your reading pleasure ...
followed by a link to some info on S. Grand.

"There's much more to intelligence than logic. Most of the AI pioneers were mathematical magicians
and philosophers and to them, thinking was about logic, about reason. But it has to grow out of more
primitive systems, and most intelligence is not logical. Most of the time we are not reasoning people.
Dogs tend not to argue about syllogisms, but they still seem bright. Chuck IBM's Deep Blue chess
computer and a dog into a pond, and see which one climbs out first. Which means that intelligence
is grounded in survival.
If you haven't got a reason to think, you won't think, and survival is what motivates us."
http://creatures.wikicities.com/wiki/Steve_Grand

~griz~

560

Suggestions / Relativity Mode

« on: October 14, 2005, 05:55:24 PM »

Any higher order bot in a 2D bots' world would probably look like a circle of varying radius.

you guyz familiar with Flatland?
http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland/

~griz~

561

Suggestions / Electric

« on: October 14, 2005, 05:43:32 PM »

Too much vb for Zelos, he is beginning to write like me. biggrin.gif

oh no!  you mean it's contageous?!?! :lol:
made me smile, Bots ... good one.

~griz~

562

Suggestions / Relativity Mode

« on: October 14, 2005, 12:39:21 PM »

The only thing that really gets me would be collisions between bots.
That's where my head implodes, because from my frame of reference, if two bots collide head on each going .99c...

guess you could set up an experiment ...
gather some empirical evidence.
you and Bots drive, I'll be the independent observer. :lol: hehehe

~griz~

563

Suggestions / Relativity Mode

« on: October 14, 2005, 12:16:57 PM »

Oh and Griz do not lecture me about thinks I know ;P
In a way you lectured me with the same fact that made me think you did not understand the theory.(I meanr it gets shorter from an outer point of reference
in direction of movement)

I wasn't I lecturing you ...
only responding to your assumption/accusation/statement that I did
not understand relativity ... in a manner which I found to be quite unfriendly ...
seeing as you have no idea of my own background or experience.  
remember ... when you point a finger at someone ...
three of your own fingers point back at you.  :P
you are, of course, quite welcome to your own interpretation/perception
of reality ... [it's ALL relative]
all I ask is that you own it and not project it onto me/others ...
you know ... apply the transformations first. ;)

And Num, stop tricking me with my formulations.
The speed of light can only be reached by particles without mass, so there is no absolute speed" for partcles with mass". Although that was quite a clever trick Num XD.

close ... but not quite correct my friend.
theory, speculation, concepts, ideas, formulations ...
are only what they are ...
theory, speculation, concepts, ideas, formulations ...
approximations ... tools we build to help us in our understanding.
but they are only the tools we use to measure/decipher reality ...
not reality itself ...
let us not confuse the map with the territory ...
or the menu for the meal.

so ...
if I tell you that there are indeed particles that do move faster then light ...
will you again accuse me of not knowing what I am speaking about?

there are indeed particles that do travel faster than light.
I have pictures. ;)

~griz~

564

Suggestions / Electric

« on: October 14, 2005, 11:21:08 AM »

naming units in db after ppl here is just silly if you ask me. name after real famous persons.
or maybe name it after we put 2 words toghater it gets more persinal to our program

you mean Numsgil and Youko are not famous?!?!?!
well ... perhaps not yet. ;)

~griz~

565

Off Topic / F1

« on: October 14, 2005, 11:11:11 AM »

excellent.

btw ... where would the F1 League file be saved/stored?
where does the program read it from?
I thought I created a new one ... although it isn't a good one ...
just an experiment to see if it would work and where it got stashed ...
planning on being able to delete or alter it later ...
but I can find no trace of it anywhere ... as a new written file.

tanks
~griz~

566

Suggestions / New tie structures

« on: October 14, 2005, 11:00:09 AM »

I know, it's long. I'll write a summary and start it as a new topic later maybe. It's still a good read, shows you the process of the refinement of an idea .

another excellent example of the process of evolution. ;)
it includes our ideas/concepts/memes ...
life is dynamic ... life that is static isn't life ... it's dead.

anyone here familiar with the books/ideas of richard dawkins?
or should that be another thread?

~griz~

567

Off Topic / New ALife simulator

« on: October 14, 2005, 10:37:57 AM »

 
A don't think a 'preset lifespan' is a great idea. It sounds to artificial to me.

artificial? do you expect to live forever Henk? ;)

I think setting a 'maximum' is indeed a valid simulation of life as we know it ...
I once wrote my own version of the classic Conway's LIFE ...
only I could set a maximum life span ...
the results were most excellent! ... no more clogging up the board with thousands
of 'beings' that never changed. this made the results much more dynamic and
interesting ... and I discovered some great, simply, glider engines.
also ... assigned various colors to correspond to the 'age' ...
which also resulted in very interesting/eye pleasing displays and patterns.

one never knows what the result of a simple change will be ...
what will come of it ... that's evolution ...
and it includes our programming efforts. ;)

I think the idea of a script to set a max life span is a great one!!!
and this idea of scripts itself ... to be something that we will find
to be of great value.

~griz~
ps ... that Life prog was in VB ...
ironically ... I lost everything I ever wrote in VB while trying to save the files
to a place where they would be safe.  :
the only data I have ever lost was lost in just this way ...
while trying to protect it. :angry: Grrrrrrrrrrr!
perhaps I will get back into VB again now ... DB having inspired me.

568

Off Topic / F1

« on: October 14, 2005, 10:04:38 AM »

I am not sure if the league files come with a new installation.

I had to remake all of mine from scratch. The best thing to do is just to add 2 or 3 bots to your list and run them.

If you have a full F1 league file then running a single bot against it can take several hours. If your list contains multiple bots then "running the league" could take days.

In normal f1 mode, just select 2 bots to battle each other and set it going. 

ahha!!!
my bots were too closely matched to ever resolve a round, much less a match!
I did insert just one 'The One' when I got tired of watching after an hour ...
and  of course he proceeded to eat their lunches ... but it was no contest.
I never did let that play out to the 10 matches.
well alrighty then ...
will select 2 or 3 who are not too closely matched ...
and let them run to establish a league.

thanks!

btw Num ...
the Excel reader works great!
I can load in the Snapshot file of saved bots ...
and sort them by age/offspring/kills ... whatever ...
and view the mutations from the parent ...
then make a selection of wothy offspring to continue on.
this is what evolving is to me ... what ALife is about ...
not so much trying to control from the top down ...
as is attempted in AI ...
but allowing things to evolve from the bottom up ...
grass roots ... like Ole Ma Nature does it.
imnsho ... THAT is what we should attempt to simulate.

'puter also downloaded VB6 for me in the dead of night ...
so will fire that up soon as well.
looking forward to hunkerin' down by the wood stove this
winter and doin' some DB'n. ;)

thanks for all the help ...
this stuff is great!

~griz~

569

Off Topic / New ALife simulator

« on: October 13, 2005, 11:59:13 PM »

I just offer the above as soemthnig I've learned over the 10 months working on DB.
It's not like all my ideas have been greeted with great enthusiasm.

and just what do you mean by that?!?!?!?!  :angry:
 :lol: LOL
so far ... I haven't run across many, if any, flames here on this forum ...
and that's a relief ... as it seems there is usually a troll or two ready to
stir up the &%$# and be a pain.

maybe folks here stay too busy DBotting to play that game ... ;)
I hope so.

~griz~

570

Off Topic / F1

« on: October 13, 2005, 11:48:53 PM »

I'm assuming you've found and are running the "league mode"?

you are correct, sir.

In league mode, a file is either read or created that pertains to the league (F1/F2, etc.).
All the bots in your startup list minus Alga_Minimalis I believe are considered contenders,
and are run through the league table, battling their way up the ladder.

this is where I hit a snag ...
nothing like what you describe happens ...
it just runs a sim with all the bots in my list but never ends, and I can't limit/select the number of cycles or the time.

Alternatively, you can run F1 contest mode, which is basically just a single match.
In it, the bots that are in your list all battle at the same time.

I didn't try that ... as I had no idea what it meant.
btw ... the 'search' function here on the forum doesn't find/return anything I enter into the search box. so I couldn't determine if there were any relevant threads.

A winner is proclaimed when one bot has sqr(number of battles) + number of battles / 2 wins.
This can be anywhere from 5 rounds to something like 200

will play with it a bit.

Thre are some controls in F1 that are things like max cycles, time, etc.
These are as yet unimplemented features that I keep forgetting to either implement
or hide from the user.

ah. ;)
so where does the initial league file come from? apparently something isn't being read in.

All this should totally go into the wiki. *Note to self*

yes ... I scoured it as well but found nada!

Snapshot files are readable into Excel as a "comma deliminated file".
There is even an excel utility available on the FTP called "snapshot" that will
analyze them for you (though I forget how it works, I only tried using it the
one time).

that would be great ...
although the 'contest' I ran didn't work like you say ...
and mutations were not disabled ...
that resulted in some pretty longlived bots that I saved in the snapshot file.
so if I had a way to then go in and rank them for survivability ... life span and
perhaps points for number of offspring ... I would end up with mutated/evloved
forms that could continue to be refined.
I did that by hand in this case ... seeking out a few ... but it took forever to look
throught the 40 that I ended up with ... and finding those with mutations ...
that were not just straight copies of the original.

ok

will check out the reader ... and see about getting VB6 ...
having only a dialup connection, it's gonna take awhile.
will let it download while I catch up on much needed beauty sleep. ;)

anyone with any hints on the league stuff ...
I'm open to suggestion.   B)

~griz~