Darwinbots Forum
Bots and Simulations => Bot Tavern => Topic started by: Jez on December 01, 2006, 01:13:38 PM
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Cool! The leagues are all being merged into one atm, hopefully the last problem with running the leagues in the latest version of DB has been fixed now. As soon as all the bots have been re-rated the results will be posted.
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Cool! The leagues are all being merged into one atm, hopefully the last problem with running the leagues in the latest version of DB has been fixed now. As soon as all the bots have been re-rated the results will be posted.
okay, thank you
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Hey Kage,
I've just classified that as a MB, (rather than F1 or F2 bot). Is that the correct classification? Sorry I haven't studied code and watched it etc but if you think that's wrong please say. If you are not sure of league classes read the description of league rules for MB/F1/F2/SB
Promise to make classification easier in future but...
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It doesn't have any .tie command so cant be a MB, so F2
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Thanks, clasification changed.
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Can't post in your original post for this bot anymore so I'll put it here;
Using DB 2.42.9g your bot is unable to survive (on its own) using F1 conditions.
I thought at first that it was because it was a stationary bot but when I tested it I noticed that it seemed to die when attempting to feed off veg's.
Did you use an older version of DB to write your bot?
I am sure some of the people here will be able to identify what is causing the problem if you want to find out.
Don't feel to bad, the last bot I wrote (blue on blue) now does exactly the same thing. I hope to see an updated version of your bot soon, it is based on a good idea.
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Can't post in your original post for this bot anymore so I'll put it here;
Using DB 2.42.9g your bot is unable to survive (on its own) using F1 conditions.
I thought at first that it was because it was a stationary bot but when I tested it I noticed that it seemed to die when attempting to feed off veg's.
Did you use an older version of DB to write your bot?
I am sure some of the people here will be able to identify what is causing the problem if you want to find out.
Don't feel to bad, the last bot I wrote (blue on blue) now does exactly the same thing. I hope to see an updated version of your bot soon, it is based on a good idea.
Thanks for putting me in anyways, I will mess around with it in the hopes of giving it a better chance at survival (it never did do good with veggies...Was I dead first?lol)
Hmm, I still don't know how to get it to feed off veggies better, any help there would be very appreciated (At this point I am still copy and pasting from the bot tutorials and can't read code very well alone)
Oh, and it turns out I had an older version on my computer, which would also explain a lot (such as my trouble shooting viruses) and my inability for anything to survive at all, and the fact that no plants ever survived...lol, a lot more stuff makes sense now
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If someone has a specific example of a bot that worked in a pervious version but does not work as expected in a recent version, I would love to know about it. I've done nothing that I know of to break older bots. There are a few known cases where older bots that relied upon a bug or the tie physics of a specific version, but other than that, all bots should work as they always have in recent versions.
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Bot put into F2 Bestiary all other posts merged and moved to bot tavern
Quick summary of genes- Move towards something far away
- Move and shoot something close by
- Turn if I see nothing
- Reproduce
- Get rid of waste
- Kill propogating viruses
- Slime
You've got the good basics of a bot
The most obvious problem I see with this bot is the reproduction gene
cond
*.tiepres 0 !=
start
50 .repro store
stop
The bot will only reproduce when another bot ties to it, couple this with the fact the bot produces slime which actively works to stop another bot tieing to it, and if your fighting against a bot that doesn't use ties your not going to reproduce at all. I would consider adding "*.nrg somenumber > or"
eg
cond
*.tiepres 0 !=
*.nrg 5000 > or
start
50 .repro store
stop
So that the bot will also reproduce when another bot ties to it or when it has lots of energy
2nd change I would suggest is to switch to -6 shots and not power them up, much more efficient for feeding from veg.
I think these small changes would bring about a big performance increase, The DNA can seem quite daunting, especially all the different sysvars, but it does get easier with practice and any questions about anything, just ask, someone will know the awnser
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Thanks, about how much should I power them up or shouldn't I power them up at all? I might also want to add more stuff to it so it would classify as an F1 bot, F2 doesn't allow ties so one of its main strengths would be useless...
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To be honest I wouldn't power them up, but you can allways try experimenting, run versions with powered up shots against another bot and then try a non powered up version against the same bot and see which works best. Its classed as an F2 because it doesn't shoot viruses or ties, but Jez is running a league for all bots, so your bot would face F1 bots that use ties and viruses. In the past some F2 bots have been entered into the F1 league and to some extent F2 bots are stronger than F1.
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To be honest I wouldn't power them up, but you can allways try experimenting, run versions with powered up shots against another bot and then try a non powered up version against the same bot and see which works best. Its classed as an F2 because it doesn't shoot viruses or ties, but Jez is running a league for all bots, so your bot would face F1 bots that use ties and viruses. In the past some F2 bots have been entered into the F1 league and to some extent F2 bots are stronger than F1.
Should I remove the slime?
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Oops! May well be my fault that your bot died Kage. Yours was probably the first one I tested which is why I made this post. You may have noticed that more bots that I tested died v veg than survived, including every one of my bots that I tested!!
If you have downloaded the latest version of DB then you will be able to see how well it is doing for yourself, it has been suggested that it is the waste setting causing this problem so I'll be trying all the bots that couldn't cope again; after changing the waste setting.
AFAIK (I'm familiar with the old versions of DB not the latest ones but it should still be the same ) slime is a defence against ties. It doesn't cause your bot any harm to have slime when you don't need it, all it is doing then is costing nrg to make! It used to be that you could only have slime or shell but I'm not sure that is true still. I'll check the wiki in a while and make sure.
I am running all the leagues as one at the moment. Depending on the result I may then title that the F1 league and reinstate all the old leagues, that's why I am adding the (F1) or (F2) etc bits to the bots names, they'll be easier to sort back into individual leagues and we'll be able to see at a glance which are the dominant types of bots.
What I normally do if I change a bot, power it up lots or add ties etc, but keep the original design of an old bot is simply add a V2 or V1.1 to it. That way you keep the old bot and have a recognisable new bot while keeping track of how the new bot developed.
F2 simply means you can't use ties for feeding, it's fine to use ties in other ways though.
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Oops! May well be my fault that your bot died Kage. Yours was probably the first one I tested which is why I made this post. You may have noticed that more bots that I tested died v veg than survived, including every one of my bots that I tested!!
If you have downloaded the latest version of DB then you will be able to see how well it is doing for yourself, it has been suggested that it is the waste setting causing this problem so I'll be trying all the bots that couldn't cope again; after changing the waste setting.
AFAIK (I'm familiar with the old versions of DB not the latest ones but it should still be the same ) slime is a defence against ties. It doesn't cause your bot any harm to have slime when you don't need it, all it is doing then is costing nrg to make! It used to be that you could only have slime or shell but I'm not sure that is true still. I'll check the wiki in a while and make sure.
I am running all the leagues as one at the moment. Depending on the result I may then title that the F1 league and reinstate all the old leagues, that's why I am adding the (F1) or (F2) etc bits to the bots names, they'll be easier to sort back into individual leagues and we'll be able to see at a glance which are the dominant types of bots.
What I normally do if I change a bot, power it up lots or add ties etc, but keep the original design of an old bot is simply add a V2 or V1.1 to it. That way you keep the old bot and have a recognisable new bot while keeping track of how the new bot developed.
F2 simply means you can't use ties for feeding, it's fine to use ties in other ways though.
Can we leech in F1 if someone else ties to us?
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You can do anything you like in F1, the bots can be as nasty and devious as you wish.
EDIT
Btw, if you don't want to keep quoting the last post just click on add reply at bottom rather than reply on post.
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You can do anything you like in F1, the bots can be as nasty and devious as you wish.
EDIT
Btw, if you don't want to keep quoting the last post just click on add reply at bottom rather than reply on post.
yes, not to sound rude or anything but I know, for me it just works better, because than you can be sure of whom I am replying to, not to mention its easier to reach
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Sorry,
I just tend to open my mouth before my brain kicks in!
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Don't be sorry, you were just trying to help
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I looked at your weblink and blog btw, are we talking Medieval 2? Those pictures look very familiar.
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I looked at your weblink and blog btw, are we talking Medieval 2? Those pictures look very familiar.
Wait, how did you know which blog was mine?
Erm, I dunno, I just found the image on the internet
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er, click on your name;
click on strikeforceclan link;
figure you are 'Spire' because of DB post there;
click on memberslist;
click on Spire's Medieval Blog
Pretty sure Medieval 2, in game footage, am waiting for patch for game atm 'cause it's to poxy easy till they fix AI (and x amount of other probs) I just thought that those pictures and you calling it Medieval Blog were linked!
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I just found a medieval picture on google and used it.
I could of just been a reader of the thread, then again, they were all too lazy to even look at it , sorry for my failure to recruit new people
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sorry for my failure to recruit new people
I wouldn't worry about it, it's not really a mass market game! More something for people with at least a cursory interest in AL or programming.
I've never had a friend take more than a cursory interest in the game, unless it's to stare at a running sim for a while and then ask if it means anything! LOL
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Maybe if bots exploded into a mass of blood and mucous when they died, we could attract the more mainstream audience
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Maybe if bots exploded into a mass of blood and mucous when they died, we could attract the more mainstream audience
Fixed in 2.42.9j.
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Rofl, where's the option box?..
EDIT
Your bot works now Kage, along with all the other F2 bots!
I suggest you add a veg search routine so it doesn't just sit still if it can't see veg and another repro gene for when it's not fighting tie bots. A good test is if your bots can cope in a sim against just veg.
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Rofl, where's the option box?..
EDIT
Your bot works now Kage, along with all the other F2 bots!
I suggest you add a veg search routine so it doesn't just sit still if it can't see veg and another repro gene for when it's not fighting tie bots. A good test is if your bots can cope in a sim against just veg.
I already got the repro thing coded in for the next discerpo...but I don't know how to code it in so that it can beat those lethal veggies in an all out pitched melee combat?
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Maybe if bots exploded into a mass of blood and mucous when they died, we could attract the more mainstream audience
Yeah and they should curse once in a while.
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I already got the repro thing coded in for the next discerpo...but I don't know how to code it in so that it can beat those lethal veggies in an all out pitched melee combat?
(As posted in league settings by Nums), check that your costs are proportional and at 100%. unfortunately using the league settings in the latest DB version tends to set this at zero, meaning your bot won't get any reward for firing shots. Tick and untick the F1 settings option first so that it is as close to default as possible.
It's not a code fault, it's a settings fault and Eric is working on the problem as we speak.
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(As posted in league settings by Nums), check that your costs are proportional and at 100%. unfortunately using the league settings in the latest DB version tends to set this at zero, meaning your bot won't get any reward for firing shots. Tick and untick the F1 settings option first so that it is as close to default as possible.
It's not a code fault, it's a settings fault and Eric is working on the problem as we speak.
yay!
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(As posted in league settings by Nums), check that your costs are proportional and at 100%. unfortunately using the league settings in the latest DB version tends to set this at zero, meaning your bot won't get any reward for firing shots. Tick and untick the F1 settings option first so that it is as close to default as possible.
It's not a code fault, it's a settings fault and Eric is working on the problem as we speak.
wait...most of the time they like don't move, they don't seem to want to eat the veggies most of the time...should I add something in so they will eat them?
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When I looked at your bot before, when the settings had been mostly sorted, they were handicapped because they didn't look for veg. That used to be ok in the leagues, but for some reason it seems to be more of a problem now.
They did seem to hunt veg ok if it got within their field of view though. (Once costs were proporitional and 100)
Either a search for veg routine or a more explosive birth routine (bots leaving parents territory) might help. When the j buddy drop is done and the settings are fixed in stone for league, when I rerun all the bots, I'll have a better idea of what strategies work best and which are a bit old hat. Certainly some of the older winning routines don't look like they will function as well as they used to.
EDIT
Also, when you tick and untick the F1 conditions; start the sim once ticked then stop it; untick F1; set costs. Otherwise F1 settings don't seem to be set properly. Just thought that might be problem.
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Also, when you tick and untick the F1 conditions; start the sim once ticked then stop it; untick F1; set costs. Otherwise F1 settings don't seem to be set properly. Just thought that might be problem.
The F1 settings from the F1 Contest Conditions checkbox don't actually get set until the Start New button is pressed. This is so the cancel button can be pressed without changes.
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When I looked at your bot before, when the settings had been mostly sorted, they were handicapped because they didn't look for veg. That used to be ok in the leagues, but for some reason it seems to be more of a problem now.
They did seem to hunt veg ok if it got within their field of view though. (Once costs were proporitional and 100)
Either a search for veg routine or a more explosive birth routine (bots leaving parents territory) might help. When the j buddy drop is done and the settings are fixed in stone for league, when I rerun all the bots, I'll have a better idea of what strategies work best and which are a bit old hat. Certainly some of the older winning routines don't look like they will function as well as they used to.
EDIT
Also, when you tick and untick the F1 conditions; start the sim once ticked then stop it; untick F1; set costs. Otherwise F1 settings don't seem to be set properly. Just thought that might be problem.
A erm...search routine?
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Ooh, er
The search routine you are using atm is rotation, when it sees a veg it moves toward the veg.
A more extensive search routine, if you are finding your bots end up sitting still, not seeing veg and therefore not getting the energy to reproduce, might be to add some movement to your bot. Either if it's not moving to accelerate to a speed and then start rotating again while it travels across sim decelerating, or if it hasn't seen anything in X rotations to stop rotating for a cycle or two and accelerate, then start rotating while moving. (Increasing the area bots can scan for food)
Another way to increase the area that your bots cover; multiplication at start to increase number of eyes and then bots moving away from their own species. Having your own bots sitting next to each other is obviously going to reduce the area of the sim that they can scan for food.
Tieing to friends and using the ability to violently stretch and break the tie is, or was, an effective way to give your bots kinetic energy for little or no cost.
I'm just about to test the latest buddy drop, I'll probably have a better idea of what makes a succesful bot now once I have run the leagues, or at least the F1 league.
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One of my bots, enitor comesum I believe, used a very efficient search gene that works well in low friction sims. Basically it would accelerate in a random direction if its velocity was zero and there was nothing to eat.
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Didn't see that in bestiary so it has been added here: Enitor Comesum (http://www.darwinbots.com/Forum/index.php?showtopic=1778)
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Even when it sees food it no longer tries to eat
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Enitor Comesum or Descerpo Inscribo?
If it is your bot then PM or post the DNA and I'll/we'll see if I/we can figure out the reason.
PS The leagues are very close to being perfect now, all credit to Eric, so if you are still having a problem with veg it is worth looking at. (I've run into similar problems loads of times, when I post it it's always something I've missed! )
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Well here it um...is. I haven't looked at the bot you guys suggested, but as of now it doesn't move attack or spin, even when it sees food...I messed this one up pretty good this time
'Discerpo Inscribo v1.6
'Made by Kage
'Latin for Dividing Entity
'It fights best against
'tie feeders because it quickly
'reproduces into multiple cells
'when it has been tied and overpowers
'its foe from all angles
cond
*.robage 0 =
start
7 989 store
stop
cond
*.vitmer 0 =
start
3 .mkvirus store
stop
cond
7 *989 !=
start
-2 .shoot store
stop
cond
*.eye5 20 >
*.vtimer 1 =
start
100 .vshoot store
stop
cond
*.eye5 0 >
*.refeye *.myeye !=
start
*.refveldx .dx store
*.refvelup 30 add .up store
stop
cond
*.eye5 50 >
*.refeye *.myeye !=
start
-6 .shoot store
*.refvelup .up store
stop
cond
*.eye5 0 =
*.refeye *.myeye = or
start
314 rnd .aimdx store
stop
cond
*.tiepres 0 !=
*.nrg 5000 > or
start
50 .repro store
stop
cond
*.waste 40 >
start
.backshot inc
-4 .shoot store
*.waste .shootval store
stop
cond
*.mkvirus 0 !=
start
*.mkvirus .delgene store
stop
cond
*.slime 300 <
start
100 .mkslime store
stop
cond
*.poison 500 <
start
50 .strpoison store
stop
cond
*.shell 250 <
start
100 .mkshell store
stop
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Well it is only showing 5 genes if I view genes activations, it did show me all the genes in show robot info/DNA but then changed it to only showing me 5 genes there as well. May have been after I fixed the spelling mistake in G2.
Very strange, may have found a bug there, can't see a reason for it.
Interested to know if other peeps can only see 5 genes in sim using view genes activations.
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I would take a good hard look at gene 10, as the source of the problem
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Rofl, it is deleting it's own genes! Well spotted Light.
Kage,
with G2 and G10 fixed it'll beat at least the first three bots in F1 league, it drew 3 all v Anon Terrifica when I tested a fixed version just now, won't do a full run until you release it as an entry in league.
Your original bot also works, if it hadn't been for the fact that it didn't repro unless tied to I would have seen how far it went in league, as it is it would be starvation matches v all the F2 bots that it didn't find and kill so haven't bothered yet. It you want it entered as is just say.
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Rofl, it is deleting it's own genes! Well spotted Light.
Kage,
with G2 and G10 fixed it'll beat at least the first three bots in F1 league, it drew 3 all v Anon Terrifica when I tested a fixed version just now, won't do a full run until you release it as an entry in league.
Your original bot also works, if it hadn't been for the fact that it didn't repro unless tied to I would have seen how far it went in league, as it is it would be starvation matches v all the F2 bots that it didn't find and kill so haven't bothered yet. It you want it entered as is just say.
Okay, thanks a lot. (you are talking about the non-gene destroying version right?)
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Well, after 3 months of completely forgetting about darwin bots, I'm back again, and will probably be working more on my bot now
I'm surprised I'm still in F1 (I'll still be out pretty quickly though, seeing as how I'm like 26 out of 30 right now, lol).
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Welcome back!
That reminds me to go check the starting gate to see if there are any new entries I've not put through the league yet...
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Hmm..thats odd. It says his virus is ready, but it refuses to fire even when it walks right up to an enemy...grrrr...