Darwinbots Forum
Bots and Simulations => Bot Tavern => Topic started by: bacillus on March 26, 2008, 11:54:33 PM
-
Hello to all!
I would like to take this little space up to formally announce that I have started up the F1 league again. There are 78 contestants, including every single bot in the F1 bestiary, and a few random ones which seemed F1-esque from the starting gate. In this forum, I hope to give a daily report on how the league is running.
To EricL, I apologize that I am dragging in an old corpse into the bar, and probably am putting this in the wrong forum, but I hope to make this worthwhile.
-
DAY 1
-------
Downloaded all bots, ran 32 simulations against Animal Minimaxis
Status: 1.1%
-
Just to make sure, are you using version 2.43.1e?
PS - I thought every bot in the starting gate was F1 eligible... how can we know which ones will be successful without running them?
-
To EricL, I apologize that I am dragging in an old corpse into the bar, and probably am putting this in the wrong forum, but I hope to make this worthwhile.
Glad your doing it. You may find bugs - the league code is.... delicate. Just let me know.
-
Yay for the leagues!
If everyone does a league each it could reduce load. I could do the F2 league...
-
I've tried the run league function already, and it never works. I'm running the league manually.
I'm only running the F1 marked bots, then me and Commander Keen will take the top 30 bots from the F1 and F2 league, and make a final table out of that, which I'll run any bot against who thinks it has a chance to overthrow a current bot.
DAY 2
-------
Ran a few more sims.
Status report: 1.7%
-
What never works with the league function? You don't mean you're running one match at a time do you?
-
What never works with the league function?
Everything.
Seriously, I've tried everything I can, and I've never gotten a league to work.
I've spent too much time on the forum today. I should start continuing the league.
I will be leaving now.
-
League running might be broken. Might not. Let's work through it together. There's just no way to run the hundreds of rounds by hand. You'd go crazy.
Running it just now, I do notice that it crashes if you don't have a league folder. That's a bug. It should create all the initial files and folders if none are found.
To fix it, check out Jez's instructions on running your own league. It's in the F1 folder I believe.
After that, I managed to get some bots in the league, but when I tried to save the results, I got an error. That's bug #2.
After that, I downloaded the F1 Zips from the F1 forum and moved them in to my DarwinbotsII\Leagues\ directory. I was then able to rerun the league (but since it's Guardian my poor laptop is having a hernia )
After forcing Guardian to win manually, I got in to other rounds. The program keeps wanting to stay on top when it's running league matches, which is annoying. Bug #3.
(Oh, and not really a bug, but the program trying to parse Guardian more than once is especially annoying.)
-
As far as I understand it isn't possible to create a bot that isn't F1 compatible, since there are no rules in the F1 league you can't realy disqualify a bot from it.
So... realy all bots are F1 bots... and usualy people don't label with F1 if they qualify for another league. A lot of the top bots in the F1 league do not have the F1 league tag in their name, instead they show what other leagues they qualify for.
So I don't think picking the bots by their label is a very good idea, atleast not for F1, since you need to run the bots in chronological order (Ordered by the date the bots topic was created), so you can't just run the remaining bots later on, or atleast that wouldn't realy be "fair" to the makers of those bots.
Either way, no matter what label a bot has it is also F1, so if you want to run the entire F1 league you need to run all bots in the order they where submitted or you wouldn't be doing it right...
Personaly I wouldn't run the entire league thought, I'd just take the current F1 league tabel and run all the bots in the starting gate against it, the bots that aren't in the starting gate should already have been run before, if something changed then the author can always update it or just ask for it to be run again, otherwise I wouldn't worry about the old bots.
And remember, taking all the bots in the F1 section.... not nearly enough.... as mentioned.... F1 is ALL bots, no exceptions.
Unless you realy want to reevaluate the entire league, then I would sugest just taking over where Jez left off and just run the bots in the starting gate against the current league files.
I don't think anyone is expecting you to start over from scratch.
This would also leave you the time to categorize the bots with no label, the rules are posted in different topics, but they can easily be summarized :
F1 : All bots, no exceptions.
F2 : All bots that don't use a virus or transfers energy through a tie.
MB : Organisms made of more than one bot (The multi flag must also be set I think)
SB : All bots with 6 genes or less.
SS : One store comand, no more no less.
I should mention that some of these leagues kindof lost their concept along the way.
The SB league is anything but short since you can just SG'fie any bot, so 6 genes only sets a limit of 5 viruses, the bot can still do an unlimited amount of things.
The MB league is rules by the bots that spend the least time worrying about ties, since they're usualy more of a disadvantage. You can comunicate a lot better through the air than through your tie, the tie will disrupt your aim, if you form new ties the old tie angles will change, moving around is hard to controll, you can't stiffen birth ties so you risk tieing to enemies or alge when forming, and generaly the ties are just anoying and useless and creates weaknesses. I'm not saying you can't somehow make a multibot that uses the ties to it's advantage, just saying it has yet to happen. The ties just have a will of their own, you're not realy in controll and theres not much you can do with them. Ties are just far more usefull when used as a weapon.
So as far as I'm concerned you don't need to run SB or MB leagues, I don't think anyone cares... maybe if abyaly actualy makes a good MB you could run that
The way I see it, if the top MB can't even make a spot in F1 or F2, then the MB league just seems like a sandbox for handicapped bots.
-
I've tried the run league function already, and it never works.
I used the league function to run SS. It works in d. I just tested the league function in e. It also works fine.
For the sake of formality and consistency of results, I insist that you use the league function. If you're having problems, I can probably help you get past them.
-
I will be working on the bugs above...
-
I let the F1 league run over night (rerunning the current F1 table). A lot of bots are changing positions. Guardian dropped way down. Just two spots above my ancient Spanish Conquistador. Excalibur seems to be the current champ... So the current rankings are mostly bogus. I think we should probably make a huge list of every bot in the beastiary (a huge undertaking to be sure), and run them ALL in chronological order. I have some spare computers. Eric, if you could make DB command line drivable, so I could run extended league matches using a batch file or something, I could probably run an automatic league. People could just log in to my computer and upload their bot, and DB would automatically run the bot in the league.
-
There's just no way to run the hundreds of rounds by hand. You'd go crazy.
Already am.
I think I tried running my own league using about 3 or 4 bots last year, and even with every instruction found, I still didn't get it to work. I don't like the way it runs the wins; a draw is declared even if its 1:4 at the end, and the contest is infinitely extended.
Besides, I enjoy doing it; some bots are so outdated they are lucky to survive 100 cycles, and I get to see an interesting variety of bot techniques.
My favourite bot so far is one that stubbornly sits in one position, and very slowly expands to take over the simulation. It almost seems territorial.
DAY 3
-------
Finished running all of Animal Minimaxis 3's fights; final result 48.5 out of a possible 76. I think he will be the minimum standard at entering the league. I was glad to see the only bot to beat it faster than my Occura Amplificis was Martian Tank 3.
2.6% of contests done.
-
I've never had any recurring problems with the league function, although it does seem to be a bit flaky at times, and the way of doing it could be simpler.
I'm running the F2 league, using the DB league "automator", with defenders winning after 10 rounds. Once I've run the league with it's current bots, I'll test all the other F2 bots out there. Haven't had any problems at all. Possibly Bacillus's problems are related to his installation, I can't remember if I gave him the old installer and the new exe, or if I just copy/pasted my DB folder. Also, I think you need the bots to go in the League folder to work. Thats ...(Darwinbots root folder)\Leagues\(LeagueName)
I had problems initially, but I accidentally put my League folder in the robot folder.
We still need volunteers for the MB/SB leagues. I think the SB league is worth running, it's pretty competitive, and I really think MB's need more attention. Multibots are really cool, unfortunately they aren't very efficient.
-
Oh yeah, I just downloaded version 2.43.1d. Maybe I should try that.
Although I do like doing it manually.
Animal Supremeus was able to beat that no-repro bot (Discerpo Inscribo or something like that), which is a relief to know I won't have to wait for ages every time it runs.
-
There's just no way to run the hundreds of rounds by hand. You'd go crazy.
I don't like the way it runs the wins; a draw is declared even if its 1:4 at the end, and the contest is infinitely extended.
Not infinitely. A bot has to win, IIRC, n/2 + sqrt(n) rounds to be declared the winner, where n is the total numer of rounds. That formula is based on actual statistical math, though the implementation is rather unscientific (you're supposed to determine a sample size before the experiment.)
-
Okay, maybe infinitely was a bad use of words.
How about "longer than my patience" or "absurdly time-consuming"?
Uh-oh, I haven't paid attention and now Animal Supremus vs. SWARM 2.0 has advanced to round 16...
-
New bug: left running a league for like a full day. Came back and the round is stuck with Martian Tank and DIN both at 0 pop, but no one getting credited with the win for the round. Instawin buttons do not work either. Program is otherwise fully responsive.
-
That should only happen when all rounds have been run; otherwise it works. Check again.
DAY 4
-------
Run all of Animal Supremus and Aura's fights; Animal Supremus 56/76 and Aura 1/76.
Status: 7.7%
-
The contest wasn't over. The score was 1-2
-
Oh yeah, I just downloaded version 2.43.1d. Maybe I should try that.
-
Running it just now, I do notice that it crashes if you don't have a league folder. That's a bug. It should create all the initial files and folders if none are found.
I can't get this crash to occur. The code is there already to create the League folder when it does not exist. Seems to work for me.
After that, I managed to get some bots in the league, but when I tried to save the results, I got an error. That's bug #2.
This works for me too.
The program keeps wanting to stay on top when it's running league matches, which is annoying. Bug #3.
This is fixed in 2.43.1f
(Oh, and not really a bug, but the program trying to parse Guardian more than once is especially annoying.)
I'll see what I can do about this.
-
I'll post a bug report...
-
DAY 5
-------
Ran first 18 rounds of Blue on Blue, most of the time just worked on Dominis. Probably same today.
Status Report: 8.3%
The contest wasn't over. The score was 1-2
That has never occurred to me before; are you positive that you didn't accidentally set it to 3 rounds?
-
The contest wasn't over. The score was 1-2
That has never occurred to me before; are you positive that you didn't accidentally set it to 3 rounds?
I've seen it. It's real. Pretty rare though. Don't have a solid repro and haven't managed to catch it in the IDE... yet.
-
DAY 6
-------
Ran 25 more rounds for Blue on Blue, only 25 more to go.
Had a bit of a setback because my mouse broke, and I had a bit of trouble reactiviating the integrated mice.
Status: 9.5%
-
DAY 7
-------
Ran 11 more rounds. Should hit a productivity streak soon.
Status: 9.8%
-
DAY 8
-------
Finished Blue on Blue. Total Score 64/76.
Status: 10.3%
-
DAY 9
-------
Ran first 30 rounds of Bubbles.
Status: 11.4%
-
The contest wasn't over. The score was 1-2
That has never occurred to me before; are you positive that you didn't accidentally set it to 3 rounds?
I've seen it. It's real. Pretty rare though. Don't have a solid repro and haven't managed to catch it in the IDE... yet.
I've seen it too. I think it happens when all bots in the contest die in the same cycle. I'll try running some tests sometime. I saved a sim where it happened, I'll see if I can dig it up.
-
I've seen it too. I think it happens when all bots in the contest die in the same cycle. I'll try running some tests sometime. I saved a sim where it happened, I'll see if I can dig it up.
That would be great! Your hint sounds very plausable. It might be enough for me to dive into it and investigate. I'm out next week (Kid's Spring Break) so it might be a week or so, but I'll get to it.
-
Just tried running a quick test, but console commands don't seem to work in F1 mode, so I was unable to engineer a test case. Although while testing I saw the invisible bot problem, so I saved the sim anyway.
I'm a VB programmer, so if the code isn't too confusing I could take a look...
-
I'm a VB programmer, so if the code isn't too confusing I could take a look...
It's confusing.... but feel free. 2.43.1g should post tonight. I'll do a source drop as well. Just have to stress this one fix for a hang I've been hunting forever. Finially found it, but it was in the Guass() routine which is core to mutations and several other important things. So I have to bake it for a while to make sure I didn't mess that up. The league code is mostly in the F1Mode module.
-
Gauss had a bug in it?
-
Gauss had a bug in it?
Yea. It didn't like standard deviations or means on the order of 1 x 10^-39...
-
DAY 10
---------
Only had time to do 1 round
-
If only there was some sort of automated way to run contests between bots.
-
I can't get myself to trust data that comes from this method.
-
Which method, automated or manual? Because declaring 22-1 a draw is fairly suspicious and I've seen it a lot of times when leaving the computer to it.
DAY 11
--------
23 rounds today. There's a lot of things similar to Aura that do worse than Alga Minimalis would if I had entered it, so there is productivity bumps sometimes. Not looking forward to 40 sims straight of Guardian .
Status: 12.2% - almost 1/8 there!!!
For people suspicious of my results, you can try running it yourself:
-
22-1 would mean a bot has way more than 50% + sqrt(#rounds), so it would have been decalred the winner a long time ago.
-
Sure? It just comes up "Statistical Draw - Extending Contest" and drags on and on and on. It was.
-
Do the calculation yourself next time you think it's running too many rounds. Calculate #rounds / 2 + sqrt(#rounds). If a bot has more wins than that, and the contest is still going on, it's a bug.
-
A bug it is, then.
-
Then go post it in the bugs and fixes forum, with the info Eric wants for league bugs, and he'll fix it.
-
I just took a look at the list you added in the zip file, very nice to have a larger list of bots BTW, but I noticed the numbers on the bots... is that the order you're running the bots in ?
The numbers don't match the dates where the bots where submitted. When a bot is submitted everyone can read it's code, making it very easy to take bot nr 1 in the league and make a bot capable of beating nr 1 but nothing else, then run the league with your bot first and follow up with the rest... that's not realy much fun, and I think the instructions for running the leagues also state that you need to follow the order in wich the bots where submitted (Just order the topics by the date the topic was created and the order should be clear).
I realy think any new bot has to beat all bots created before it, alteast the 30 in the league, in order to get first place. Otherwise the bot is only holding it's place because it's being protected by a stronger bot, and not because it made it through on it's own. The point is also that people aren't suposed to start off trying to find a way to beat Guardian (Or Etch II now), you gotta work your way up through the league from the bottom, which is a softer learning curve and a lot of fun.
-
Don't worry about the numbers; it's just my way of keeping track.
What I think you think is that I'm running the league in a KO fashion; I have a BIG grid, and whenever a bot wins a contest, I enter the result into the grid. If the two species form a stable ecosystem, which I have seen once only so far, each contestant gets 1/2 a point. Every bot has 76 contests, that is, faces each other bot in the league. No bias. Was this what you were worried about, or have I misinterpreted?
DAY 12
--------
Finished running Bubbles; final score 63/76, putting it one point behind the current leader Blue on Blue.
Status: 12.8%
Damn, Teakwondo training is in town today, I'll have to work hard to get anything done today.
-
Yeah was just worried you followed the order of those numbers. But I don't think you need to run all bots against all others, as far as I understand it you can just add the first bot, run the second bot against the first, then run the third against the first and second, asf asf... that's less fights, and when you think about it the results from running all vs all won't nesesarily be better than just running them cronologicaly. It'll take less time and be consistent with the way the leagues have been run up to now, I think if you want to change the way the leagues are run you should realy run it by one of the bot gods first (Since in the end it's their call). It may seem more fair to run all vs all, but in reality I don't think the results would be better, beating bots that aren't in the league is rarely going to be the issue and who's to say that a strong league bot should drop in position because theres some bot outside the league able to beat it, and you would also have a loophole since people can create a bot that won't make it in the league but can beat that one bot they're having problems with then make several bots exploiting the same weakness and pull the oponents bot out of the league (Although I doubt anyone whould be so lame).
Anyway just saying I think you're doing more work than you need to, and you realy need to run any changes to the way you're running the league by a bot god to make sure your results are valid. Would be a shame to spend all that time running the league if the results aren't going to get aproved. Theres a reason someone (Think it was EricL) insisted that you used the features in DB to run the league automaticaly, people like consistent results, if you're going to change the way the leagues are run, I strongly sugest you get it aproved by someone "official" if you expect the results to count as a valid league update. Even running your method you should still use the automated setup for running F1 with the league table and all that, to make sure all settings are correct (You can't trust the regular 5 vs 5 restart match thing, it won't always have the right settings).
-
These are my worries:
- You're leaving bots out that should be run
- You're doing it manually
- You're scrapping the old league system in favor of yours (it's a challenge league, not a tournament league)
- You're not using the latest version
-
Adressing those problems:
-I'm not leaving out any bot except those that fit in other leagues; my understanding is that Commander Keen is running F2, where we will take the top 30 of each and condense them into the final result.
-I'm doing it manually because the automatic one has never worked for me
-I only based the system as an educated guess; I don't care if this will never be official, I am ranking the bots to create a platform which can then be challenged
-I'm not using the latest version for consistency; at the rate the new versions are coming out, every bot will have had its contests spread throughout between two and five versions, some such as lionfish about a dozen.
FYI, I was actually doing it the way Moonfisher suggested, which adds up to 2926x5=14630 rounds. It may seem like a lot, but I cover an average of 125 per day.
Besides, if this defies the rules of Formula 1, why not make this the F1.2 league?
DAY 13
--------
Ran first 10 rounds of Cadillus.
Status: 13%
-
So should we come find you early next July?
-
Well, I just found out that Cadillus was entered twice, so 70 sims cut off there.
Even so, in 12 days I have run more than 1/8 of the league, and I still have a lot of the ones to come which I can finish in 15 minutes.
I'll guess late June (this year).
-
Well, I just found out that Cadillus was entered twice, so 70 sims cut off there.
Even so, in 12 days I have run more than 1/8 of the league, and I still have a lot of the ones to come which I can finish in 15 minutes.
I'll guess late June (this year).
I sincerely admire your dedication, but [rant] I'd rather have the leagues run automatically! ie input 60 bots > 10 hours later > program spits out list[/rant]
Good to see the community so alive again, though!
-
DAY 14
--------
40 more rounds of cadillus. Removed double instance of cadillus. Should finish it up today.
Status: 14.6%
-
my understanding is that Commander Keen is running F2, where we will take the top 30 of each and condense them
Yup, this is correct, I did get halfway through rerunning F2, I'm hoping my laptop will get fixed (runs db 2x faster than desktop) so I can get this done all in one afternoon, but if not, I'm considering leaving my desktop on overnight.
-
Just remember that bots will end up in very different placements in F2 and F1.... Martian tank 3 is last in F1 but nr 3 in F2... a good F2 bot can fail in F1 because of lacking defences where "lesser" bots get further with their viral and tie defences. You would as a minimum have to run top 30 F2 through the F1 league, prefferably top 50 to be sure... since you never know which bots from F2 can actualy survive in F1. (The good news is that after you run martian tank 3 and it ends up at the bottom it'll keep most other F2 bots out.)
Still not sure it'll qualify to be the regular challenge F1... maybe a new category, tournament F1... but I can't think of anyone else who will want to help run that league seeing how you need to run sooo many bots each time... and challenge is just as much fun.
Also remember to use the newest drop for F2, I got an F2 rape bot in the starting gate, won't work unless you're using one of the newest drops.
-
The point of what I'm doing at the moment is to establish a top 30 list which can then be challenged. One person will need to do this, so no bias is created. This person would need to filter them from the Starting gate as they came.
DAY 14
--------
Almost finished Cadillus; Guardian matched it fairly evenly
Status: 14.9%
-
DAY 15
--------
Finished Cadillus, now working on Carnatus Orbis. Final Score: 65
Status:15.3%
-
DAY 15
--------
21 runs of Carnatus Orbis
16.0%
-
DAY 16
--------
16 more runs of Carnatus Orbis.
It's interesting to see the evolution of DarwinBots itself, with many of the old species succumbing to the current standard of bots. I wonder if the top bots in the new versions would do as well in the old versions, where the dinosaurs ruled, because some of these bots (especially Aura and "simple bot virus") are unfathomably incompetent.
-
I wonder if the top bots in the new versions would do as well in the old versions, where the dinosaurs ruled, because some of these bots (especially Aura and "simple bot virus") are unfathomably incompetent.
Many would not as they rely on features only available in newer versions such as eye width or .totalmyspecies.
As always, I would be interested in cases where older bots have problems in newer versions as a result of unintended changes. My goal is to provide as much backward compatability as possible. Sometimes we break from the past and intentionally change things (such as making eye sight distance a function of width) but that is pretty rare. If an old bot doesn't work as it should in newer versions because of some unintended change, I want to know about it.
-
I think Aura fell appart because of the eye range, generaly any old bots using 360 degree eyes are having problems.
And I think the reson Excalibur fell appart recently is because of the reactive armor using in/out, it seems like it's making too much shell and poison and such...
Although it shouldn't matter since it's using the defined names and not the adctual adress... maybe one of the locations used has been put to use in newer drops...
Another good reason to use those free locations between 50 and... 175 I think...
Anyway a lot of the bots should be possible to fix without too much effort, atleast if they defined all their vars...
This is also why I've started to use constants and vars for everything in my new bots, it makes it easyer to understand your own code without spamming comments, easy to change keys or tweek magic values or correct the locations used by vars if they're no longer available... and this way if it breaks down in a new drop it should be possible to fix only by adjusting a few values.
-
Sorry to continue off-topic, but one potentially fixable source of problems for older bots may well be the change in the eye value function that accompanied making eye sight distance a function of width. See this topic (http://www.darwinbots.com/Forum/index.php?showtopic=2443). I changed the function that determines eye values as well as making it based on edge to edge distance instead of center to center distance. This was a huge change, one I'm surprised has not ellicited more feedback. The specific details of the new formula are in the later posts in that topic. These changes impact eye values (I.e. what value corropsonds to what distance) for all bots, even those that do not change their eye width. I tried to choose a formula that was close to the old one for distances most bots care about, but it is quite possible that older bots that trigger at specific eye values to shoot, chase, etc. are not working as they were designed due to changes in the eye values for specific distances.
I am very much solicting feedback on this. I would very much apprecaite it if someone could perform some empirical compartive tests on eye values relative to actual physcial distance, say between version 2.43 and any recent version post 2.43z.
-
The 360 degree eye has nothing to do with it in most cases. Run an Aura for yourself; even if you have 1000 veggies in a minimal-sized map, they die a repro death.
-
It could be the eye values. I tried fiddling with them in the program once a few years ago and it generally caused some really nasty problems. Hard part is figuring out a way to test it.
-
Aura uses it's eyes to know when to reproduce, it surounds itself with 3 smaller bots, but if it looses sight of them it creates new ones...
So when the eye range is reduced considerably it will quickly loose sight of the offspring even though they should be within range.
Guardian also fails against anything that fires at it from a longer range, since it can't see too far, but counter leeching will also work on it now (I think the first cycle was safe in older versions maybe, making it possible to drain nrg for one cycle and then break the tie.)
Etch broke down because shots where weakened for small bots.
Excalibur broke down lately... not sure if it's related to in/out values used for the reactive armor, or if it's one of it's vars that got put to use. (Should be easy to figure out, excalibur is a rather short bot)
And reaper has also dropped in performance also a small bot using shots...
So I think the old top 5 are all broken by now... so I'd guess a lot of the other bots are having problems aswell...
Also you can fix Aura if you want, just disable the broken repro gene (It has 2 repro genes, one of them no longer works with the new eyes) and ofcourse replace the gene with a propper working repro gene. Excalibur could probably be fixed too... don't see much hope for the other 3 though, too much work and major changes would have to be made.
-
That does explain a lot.
DAY 18
--------
Finished Carnatus Orbis. Final score 40.
Status: 17.7%
-
DAY 19
--------
Worked a bit on Darth Shimasu.
-
DAY 20
--------
Worked a lot more on Darth Shimasu.
19.3% done.
-
I've been thinking of adding a new league option that would add a random set of shapes to each match. Feedback?
-
Sure. But I suppose shape unaware bots would be at a rather large disadvantage (would they even survive?). So I'm not sure about integrating it in to, say, the core F1 rules. Would make for more interesting matches (would have to be careful that the shapes don't create something like a safe area that can't be gotten to from anywhere else), but if it breaks all existing league bots that would be problematic.
-
I was thinking ghost shapes that absorb shots... but I'm also thinking it could be used as an exploit by tie bots, hiding in the shapes and killing intruders with ties.
I think maybe just adding random shapes might be a problem. I think it should be more like a fixed map of certain shape, so you would be able to set up interesting areas of some sort...
But I also agree this might just create a need to make the bots aware of shapes and not try kill them or run into them...
Would probably be best to make some tests, make some maps and see how current league bots handle it, and see if you can actualy gain a real advanatage from shapes other than unprepared bots wasting time trying to kill shapes... try to make a bot that uses shapes for something, to see if the idea actaly works.
-
I suppose shape unaware bots would be at a rather large disadvantage (would they even survive?)
I think any shapes would be a major disadvantage to most bots, and a whole new series of bot would have to be made. However, the map thing is interesting. I made two slightly different versions of Whirlwind, both of which build fortresses using algae, and raid the other fortress every now and then. I think that with a map, that kind of bot would look really amazing.
DAY 21-23
------------
Removed double instance of DIN and finished Carnatus Orbis. Final Score 38. Now running Destinatus Preliator.
Status: 20.3%
Unbeaten bots: Ebola, Pacifist, Occura Amplificis, Multiply4, EtchMK II.
-
DAY 24
--------
Ran 27 rounds of Destinatus Preliator. The most interesting fight was with Pacifist; I accidentally left it running, and when I came back Pacifist lost 4:7.
-
DAY 25
--------
14 more rounds until Destinatus Preliator is finished.
Status: 22.2%
-
DAY 26
--------
Finished Destinatus Preliator; final score 41.
22.7% complete.
-
DAY 27
--------
Finished Anon Terrifica; final score 28.5. Next up is Dominator Invincibalis.
Status: 25.7%
-
DAY 28-29
------------
Dominator Invincibalis done; final score 41.
-
DAY 30-31
------------
Finished Duplo Simpleboticus; final score 41.
Status: 29.7%
-
DAY 32
--------
Finished Etch MKII; perfect score of 74.
-
DAY 33
--------
Finished Excalibur; final score 65. Now running Guardian 59 times.
-
DAY 34-35
------------
Phew, I got Guardian out of the way, the rest should be easy! Final score 38. All that trouble for nothing...
Anyway, I'm going to have to slow progress down to a small trickle for the next few weeks, Exams and our overseas trip being almost consecutive...
Progress: 36.2%
-
Well, I am not sure if you have described it but what do the points you count mean.
I saw somewhere that there where multiple bots that where unbeaten, multiply4 was one of them . Is it the purpose they fight eachother in the end or something.
-
Well, to get an unbiased challenging system going, I'm running every single bot against every other bot, and the winner gets a point. This way there won't be some powerful bot rooted on 20th because 19th place uses some rarely-used defense system that prevents any other bot from entering the league.
Since my last post, I was able to finish 3 more bots: HDV4 (32), James 4 (37), and Kyushu (25).
Don't get your hopes up, No bot beat Etch MKII, but Ebola, Multiply4, Locust, and Occura Amplificis ( ) haven't been beaten by anything else.
-
Well, to get an unbiased challenging system going, I'm running every single bot against every other bot, and the winner gets a point. This way there won't be some powerful bot rooted on 20th because 19th place uses some rarely-used defense system that prevents any other bot from entering the league.
Since my last post, I was able to finish 3 more bots: HDV4 (32), James 4 (37), and Kyushu (25).
Don't get your hopes up, No bot beat Etch MKII, but Ebola, Multiply4, Locust, and Occura Amplificis ( ) haven't been beaten by anything else.
Nice idea to do, and you're right guardian was protected by stronger bots, martian tank3 was driven to place 20th or something, becouse it couldn't survive my speedys virusus . Lesser point is that it will take much of your time, but that is fine by me
Multiply4 was, when it was made, the best of F1 and F2. So it will knock out ebola, I suspect . I am not sure about the others.
Are the other bots only legal to compete in F1, I want to get my hopes up to be the best F2 bot in a F1 league
I suspect the second version of etch will be using some dirty tricks like ties and/or viruses. And ebola uses virusus. Seems like I am atleast in the running for best F2 bot into F1.
-
That's right, Etch pushes 10000 into mkslime or something like that. I made a mirrorbot that makes any bot its tied to do whatever it tries to do to the bot, but it has no proper way of feeding and dies before it completely gets rid of Etch.
-
Nice idea to do, and you're right guardian was protected by stronger bots
*cough*
Various DBII changes since the last time I was here have resulted in Guardian becoming nearly blind, and its main form of attack no longer works. (There might be other things that have broken too, who knows)
-
That's progress for you
-
Nice idea to do, and you're right guardian was protected by stronger bots
*cough*
Various DBII changes since the last time I was here have resulted in Guardian becoming nearly blind, and its main form of attack no longer works. (There might be other things that have broken too, who knows)
Well, I knew that the various changes have broken it. To have the league winner you first had to beat the other bots. But you can agree that guardian at it current form is being protected by the others. Multiply had a hard time coming through the places before it, the fight with guardian was just incredible fast over, pretty much instakills. That says something if you see the slowdown guardian has onto the program.
It stays poor that the massive complicated bot guardian doesn't work anymore. My bots are so extremely simple in comparison.
-
Well, at least Guardian doesn't use swarm tactics. That could do a serious lockdown on your computer's speed.
-
Well, to get an unbiased challenging system going, I'm running every single bot against every other bot, and the winner gets a point. This way there won't be some powerful bot rooted on 20th because 19th place uses some rarely-used defense system that prevents any other bot from entering the league.
Since my last post, I was able to finish 3 more bots: HDV4 (32), James 4 (37), and Kyushu (25).
Don't get your hopes up, No bot beat Etch MKII, but Ebola, Multiply4, Locust, and Occura Amplificis ( ) haven't been beaten by anything else.
Nice idea to do, and you're right guardian was protected by stronger bots, martian tank3 was driven to place 20th or something, becouse it couldn't survive my speedys virusus . Lesser point is that it will take much of your time, but that is fine by me
Multiply4 was, when it was made, the best of F1 and F2. So it will knock out ebola, I suspect . I am not sure about the others.
Are the other bots only legal to compete in F1, I want to get my hopes up to be the best F2 bot in a F1 league
I suspect the second version of etch will be using some dirty tricks like ties and/or viruses. And ebola uses virusus. Seems like I am atleast in the running for best F2 bot into F1.
This'n'That 1.01 can beat Ebola, Multiply4 and Occura Amplificis of that list. Yay!
-
Ebola beats Multipy4, it was made after multiply... (Ebola was actualy my first bot, not pretty and lots of stolen code, but it worked)
And Spinner is an F2 bot... and it should beat Multipy...
Also Lovebot is an F2 bot and it beats both multiply and spinner, but raping is overpowered and is about to get nerfed in the near future.
Sorry mate, but I use Multiply4 to test my bots, so if theres one bot they can beat it's yours
Every time I've been tweeking and updating spinner I've been using Multiply aswell...
Ofcourse I'm not sure if it beats all the other F2 bots, but it beats the ones I tryed.
I think you're going to need to update it, atleast if you want it to beat all other F2 bots
(Don't worry about Lovebot, the whole alge raping thing will get disabled, so it won't work for long)
-
Ebola beats Multipy4, it was made after multiply... (Ebola was actualy my first bot, not pretty and lots of stolen code, but it worked)
And Spinner is an F2 bot... and it should beat Multipy...
Also Lovebot is an F2 bot and it beats both multiply and spinner, but raping is overpowered and is about to get nerfed in the near future.
Sorry mate, but I use Multiply4 to test my bots, so if theres one bot they can beat it's yours
Every time I've been tweeking and updating spinner I've been using Multiply aswell...
Ofcourse I'm not sure if it beats all the other F2 bots, but it beats the ones I tryed.
I think you're going to need to update it, atleast if you want it to beat all other F2 bots
(Don't worry about Lovebot, the whole alge raping thing will get disabled, so it won't work for long)
My goal is to make a simple bot and conquer the first place with it. The conclusion I put out of this is simple, multiply4 was too complicated, the next one will be simpler . Just like I did last time when multiply3 suddenly was beaten up somewhere on the 20th place? That was due to DB changes.
-
Well, there's good news on the F2 front. I've got my Laptop semi-working, so I should be able to start doing the F2 league. I'm not sure whether to use Bacillus's method or the DB League code, any preference? If DB did command-line I could write my own League program...
-
For results to be officially, well, "official", they should use the built in league function. That way you can run the league every time a new version is released quite easily, and anyone who wants to can replicate your results equally easily.
-
I think the "official" way of doing it is fine, and I will use it as soon as there is a league table up. But until then, I am using the "madman" way of doing it, just so there is a fair league table. I did explain that at least twice in this thread.
-
I was more pointing it out for the benefit of Commander Keen.
-
Numsgil has spoken. I'll use the sane way then, unless it proves far too flaky.
-
Numsgil has spoken. I'll use the sane way then, unless it proves far too flaky.
Happy to fix any and all bugs along the sane path...
-
Hmph, things are looking down for the anti-sane crusade. Which reminds me, I finished Assimilator, its final score was 18.
-
Downloaded latest version, running league now. Good job on the perf improvements, it's running at 50-150 cycles/sec, depending on the match. And my Laptop's hardly top of the line - it's a 5 year old 2.2Ghz Pentium 4-M.
It got a bit stuck on Ratticus Rex vs. Hunter 2.3 though. 20 wins each and counting. I had to make use of the Insta-win button and let the defender win. Hope that's ok...
-
To get a quick idea of the relative standings its fine, but for an "official" league run you need to let all the rounds resolve themselves without using the instawin button. It might take several hundred rounds, but you should see a winner eventually. So be patient
-
-
I'm not sure if all of these are F2, but see if you find these, as I am already running them:
Aura
Blue on Blue
Bubbles
Destinatus Preliator
Dominator Invincibalis
Duplo Simpleboticus
Excalibur
Martian Tank 3
Ratticus Rex
Oculus Infinitus
Spiral
T. Mosquito
The One
Una
Discerpo Inscribo
-
He'll still need to run the bots even though you ran them, I guess he could use your results for a specific fight if it's taking too long and use instant win for the bot that won in your runs, but my guess is you didn't run those fights in the same version he's running now, so the result still wouldn't realy count...
But I think the point is to just leave the computer running with the league, you'll go nuts if you're staring at a fight between fairly even bots that won't end.
But atleast they can win, I've seen fights that never ended, I mean I'm sure it would end at some point... but it just went on and on with noone ever gaining the upper hand or anything...
But yeah those league fights should give a result at some point, but it can take a while... good thing is you can just start the league and leave it running.
Also I should mention, the new spinner uses mrepro in a tie attack, and it looks like there are no mutations when this happens in a real league fight, but if I'm running a single 5 round league fight mrepro seems to work (Even with all mutations disabled).
I don't know if mrepro should be locked in fights or not, just saying theres a difference between normal fights and league fights as far as I can see.
Maybe the color just doesn't change in the full league fights... didn't check that...
-
If you're getting impatient that a match has been running "forever", ask yourself if your definition of "forever" is 20 minutes or 5 days. If it's 20 minutes, then you're just being impatient. Go watch TV or play GTA or something. If it's been 5 days, then I'm open for discussion
-
I've stopped watching matches, I disable the display and leave it there. That way I don't get impatient, because I won't know how long it's been doing a bot.
It's quite interesting how the league has changed. I'll post up the positions for the old bots once I get them done, then I'll do the new ones.
I saved the league file yesterday with 20 bots done, and I'm hoping that today I will get the other 10 done, then I can start on the new bots
-
-
Yay, exams are over! I have already completed one bot so far; Martian Tank 3. Final score was 61, which is pretty decent.
-
Yay, exams are over! I have already completed one bot so far; Martian Tank 3. Final score was 61, which is pretty decent.
Holidays are already over, has there been done anything or where you just enjoying the holidays
-
Actually, I just came back from Germany. In this time, I wsa sorting out useless documents and accidentally deleted the progress spreadsheet. I just started getting back into DB, but I'm thinking I'll take all the bots I documented here so far (see, wasting lots of posts does have a purpose ), then do the rest by challenge. Any complaints to this method?
-
Actually, I just came back from Germany. In this time, I wsa sorting out useless documents and accidentally deleted the progress spreadsheet. I just started getting back into DB, but I'm thinking I'll take all the bots I documented here so far (see, wasting lots of posts does have a purpose ), then do the rest by challenge. Any complaints to this method?
Deutschland das Land von bier und wurst.
So the whole spreatsheet is lost, that doesn't sound well. I dump most old documents just insite an old document folder, I am to lazy to look. I don't look into it until I need something
What are the standings now anyway. What is the ranking if you take the bots you posted here.
I gues you have already taken the strongest bots, I would like to see the results. I wonder how much it would differ from normal rankings. Atleast etch will win them both, damn etch.
But you where only running F1 right.
I red somewhere commander keen was running F2, how is that coming.
-
1-Etch MK II
2-Excalibur
3-Cadillus
4-Blue on Blue
5-Bubbles
6-Martian Tank 3
7-Proeliator Glyphus
8-Animal Supremus
9-Animal Minimaxis 3
10-Destinatus Preliator/Dominator Invincibalis
12-Carnatus Orbis/Duplo Simpleboticus
14-Oculus Infinitus
15-Guardian 0.9
16-James 4
17-HDV 4
18-Anon Terifica 2
19-Kyushu
20-Assimilator
As you can tell, the heavyweights are yet to come.
-
The current league standings for each bot in the F1 league folder and a few more can now be found in the Bot Tavern. I downloaded each non-veggie bot in the bestiary up to my two-headed worm, and will be running them soon.
-
Alright, now I just need to integrate CK's F2 results (still coming), then find some bots sulking in other bestiaries, and the F1 league should be done!
-
Sorry about all the delays, bought a new PC. Biggest mistake ever, since installing xp took an age, but It's running nicely now. I suppose I should really update my db install. Hopefully league running is less flaky than it was...
-
Sorry about all the delays, bought a new PC. Biggest mistake ever, since installing xp took an age, but It's running nicely now. I suppose I should really update my db install. Hopefully league running is less flaky than it was...
There wheren't any updates in the summer, where there? So running the league hasn't inproved.
Why is buying a new pc a mistake? Any extra computer is good.
-
There's version L, the most recent version I have in my backups was version k. So now I've downloaded that, I'll go redownload all the bots again, and then I'll run db and hope version L is more reliable than version k. What did you find was better when you ran the league Bacillus?
Well, ok, it wasn't much of a mistake, here's the details:
(Sorry about the terrible formatting!)
Old Laptop New PC
Faulty Nec Versa E660($200) Secondhand Custom Built($900)
2.2Ghz P4M Athlon X64 4400+ (Dual core 2.2Ghz)
768mb ram 2gb ram
120GB hdd 320gb sata hdd
DVD reader DVD writer
floppy drive floppy drive (surprisingly)
ATI 340m(128mb) ATI X800GTO2 (256mb)
Builtin LCD 1024x768 19" Widescreen LCD 1440x900
XP Home SP1 XP Pro SP2
100W Power usage 500W power supplyBoth have dual monitor support (not that useful, but can be handy)
My Laptop has a motherboard fault that causes it to randomly freeze/reboot.
Probably could have got better for $900, but I bought it off a guy I know, and it does have quite the array of neon lights and fancy fan controls
And yes, I was running the league on my laptop before I got this pc. So now I have a decent PC that doesn't crash every 15 minutes, I should be able to run the league pretty fast.
-
Nice. I did use k for the league, if you want to be consistent.
I always use dual-screen, mainly because my main screen is so much bigger , but also because you can keep an eye on league contests, for example, while doing (or pretending you're doing ) something else.
-
Blasted through quite a lot of the bots, my new PC is faster than I thought. Goes to show AMD make better CPUs I suppose.
L seems to be more reliable, with dual core I can run both concurrently, but k got a bit stuck, while L kept going
-
Well, ok, it wasn't much of a mistake, here's the details:
(Sorry about the terrible formatting!)
Old Laptop New PC
Faulty Nec Versa E660($200) Secondhand Custom Built($900)
2.2Ghz P4M Athlon X64 4400+ (Dual core 2.2Ghz)
768mb ram 2gb ram
120GB hdd 320gb sata hdd
DVD reader DVD writer
floppy drive floppy drive (surprisingly)
ATI 340m(128mb) ATI X800GTO2 (256mb)
Builtin LCD 1024x768 19" Widescreen LCD 1440x900
XP Home SP1 XP Pro SP2
100W Power usage 500W power supplyBoth have dual monitor support (not that useful, but can be handy)
My Laptop has a motherboard fault that causes it to randomly freeze/reboot.
Probably could have got better for $900, but I bought it off a guy I know, and it does have quite the array of neon lights and fancy fan controls
Nice computer, I gues you mean new zealand dollars. So nobody else at the world would have a clue if 900$ would be expensive, the only thing I can say it is probably lower in value then the US$ or the euro. But, floppy drive. I does have USB right ,right.
Anyway, SP3 is already out some time, you could update.
Blasted through quite a lot of the bots, my new PC is faster than I thought. Goes to show AMD make better CPUs I suppose.
My intel quadcore beats the crap out of you amd dualcore, I am sure.
Overal I think AMD and intel don't differ that much anyway.
I wonder what the final results will be. Go excalibur, go.
-
8 USB ports on my PC, 4 on my laptop. All high-speed thankfully.
$900 NZ is...
$595 US
330 Pounds
415 Euros
Here's a currency converter if you live in some other country (http://www.bnz.co.nz/Personal_Solutions/1,1184,1-1-122-814,00.html)
Well, Excalibur's been knocked off the top, and a couple of other bots have moved about. I've completed running all the bots already on the league, now I've just got to run all the F2 bots made since the last time the league was done. And there isn't as many as I thought, so it won't be long...
-
Ah, I thought you were talking about USD at first. Sounded like you'd been ripped off But ~$600 sounds about right.
You're using the default league settings without toying with that instawin button, right? When you're done I'll give you mod privileges for the leagues and you can update the F2 (F2, right?) standings.
-
Ah, I thought you were talking about USD at first. Sounded like you'd been ripped off But ~$600 sounds about right.
Knowing he would be ripped off and not even telling him.
Why do that much countrys use a coin-type that has a name dollar inside it?, gets confusing.
-
It's 'cause they all want to be a strong as the USD. ( that's just me being jingoistic)
-
New Zealand used to use pounds, shillings, and pence once. I'm glad they don't now!
You're using the default league settings without toying with that instawin button, right? When you're done I'll give you mod privileges for the leagues and you can update the F2 (F2, right?) standings.
Yes, I have resisted the temptation to use the instawin button. Old Man Bucket vs. Brevis will likely test my patience, but I'll probably run Brevis while I'm elsewhere...
The only annoyance is that my PC is in my bedroom, so I can't leave it on overnight (9+ fans, on high...) but so far no league match has taken over 12 hours to complete
-
New Zealand used to use pounds, shillings, and pence once. I'm glad they don't now!
New zealand pounds or english pounds.
-
Not entirely sure actually, but I do know that New Zealand was a British Colony for a long time, so it was probably British Pounds. Unlike America, we didn't stage protests or complain about Britain doing whatever. In 26 September 1907 New Zealand became a dominion, meaning we were essentially independent but recognised the Queen as head of state or whatever. In 1931 the British told all their colonies they could pass the Statute of Westminster at any time and declare independence, and in 25 November 1947 New Zealand finally got around to declaring itself independent.
Ok, well that's the history lesson for today
Also when I got my new PC the guy chucked in a few games including Call of Duty 4, which was cool, although admittedly it's not a lot of good on dialup internet.
-
1-Etch MK II
2-Excalibur
3-Cadillus
4-Blue on Blue
5-Bubbles
6-Martian Tank 3
7-Proeliator Glyphus
8-Animal Supremus
9-Animal Minimaxis 3
10-Destinatus Preliator/Dominator Invincibalis
12-Carnatus Orbis/Duplo Simpleboticus
14-Oculus Infinitus
15-Guardian 0.9
16-James 4
17-HDV 4
18-Anon Terifica 2
19-Kyushu
20-Assimilator
As you can tell, the heavyweights are yet to come.
Isn't EtchII a tie feeder ? F2 is no tie feeding and no viruses... pretty sure EtchII is F1...
-
That's the F1 results.
I'm doing the F2 league at the moment.
You'll be pleased to hear that currently Spinner is on top of the F2 league
-
Sweet
I also have a new F1 contester called Fruit Flies... it beats Etch II
It's 6 very simple genes, nothing advanced about it, but it beats everything I tryed it on so far
It can take a while to finish off some oponents though, it's a very weak fighter but it makes up for it in numbers.
I had to stop reproduction at 1000 bots or the fights always end up freezing...
It could probably have some more attack options in order to finish the fights a lot faster, but I like the way a few small simple genes can do so much damage...
-
That's the F1 results.
I'm doing the F2 league at the moment.
You'll be pleased to hear that currently Spinner is on top of the F2 league
No that isn't ccomplete F1 there are missing pretty lot of bots.
-
That's the F1 results.
I'm doing the F2 league at the moment.
You'll be pleased to hear that currently Spinner is on top of the F2 league
Uhm, wait spinner. Isn't that a F1-bot. As a minor weapon it does use tie attacks and suck the enemy empty with it. I don't know if it uses any other powerful F1-stuff. Atleast the spinner in my bot-directory is doing this.
Overall I think the tie-sucking is in the case of spinner not a definite powerful weapon, against some bots I could see the extra power. As not all F2-bots have sucking defence.
I looked up the spinner (http://www.darwinbots.com/Forum/index.php?showtopic=2737&hl=spinner) from the beastery, if this is the same you used, it is sucking nrg.
After looking inside the genes I see the problem.
This gene carries under here carries the actual nrg-sucking, in further dna, .deltie is set at zero and ties are formed to irritate enemys. Those ties are used here to suck the enemy.
I would say lookup this gene and delete it, then the bot is F2-worthy.
I gues your earlier results with it are also a little vilty.
'Not sure counter leeching is legal for F2
'If it isn't, then use the other tie value...
cond
*.numties 0 >
*.robage 1 >
*.tiepres 0 >
start
*.tiepres .tienum store
.tieval .tieloc store
31000 .tieval store
'0 .tieval store '-- This can be safer, helps against EtchII, but only delay's the inevitable.
*.tiepres .deltie store
stop
And further, have you checked every bot if it is really an F2-bot. Or did you just run every bot that had an F2 tag on it. There could be more F2-bots that really are F1-bots.
-
I don't think he should have to double check that a bot that says it's F2 is F2. That would be a huge pain. But if it's F1 pretending to be F2 that's not fair. Did Moonfisher post recently? Maybe we can just ask him.
-
I don't think he should have to double check that a bot that says it's F2 is F2. That would be a huge pain. But if it's F1 pretending to be F2 that's not fair. Did Moonfisher post recently? Maybe we can just ask him.
Chances are this was accidentily. At least he then forgot the check the bot properly. As far I see only one gene has to be removed to get in F2.
-
If an enemy bot ties to spinner it pushes a positive value into tieval, so if the oponent is trying to tie feed it will get drained.
Didn't know if it's alowed... tecnicaly it won't affect F2 league results since none of the oponent will attempt to tie feed (If they did they wouldn't be F2).
But it will affect F1 performance... it doesn't change the outcome of the fights, but in some cases it will finish the fight a lot faster.
Either way if there's any doubt just let the gene push 0 into tieval instead of a positive number... then it won't counter leech, it should still beat all the same bots but some fights will take longer in F1, and it might actualy make some fights a litle faster in F2....
I just figured it was a grey area... counter leeching isn't realy tie feeding, and it doesn't affect F2 results... so figured it would be fine.
-
If an enemy bot ties to spinner it pushes a positive value into tieval, so if the oponent is trying to tie feed it will get drained.
Didn't know if it's alowed... tecnicaly it won't affect F2 league results since none of the oponent will attempt to tie feed (If they did they wouldn't be F2).
But it will affect F1 performance... it doesn't change the outcome of the fights, but in some cases it will finish the fight a lot faster.
Either way if there's any doubt just let the gene push 0 into tieval instead of a positive number... then it won't counter leech, it should still beat all the same bots but some fights will take longer in F1, and it might actualy make some fights a litle faster in F2....
I just figured it was a grey area... counter leeching isn't realy tie feeding, and it doesn't affect F2 results... so figured it would be fine.
I gues you don't get my point. The bot itself drains other bots with his own ties.
-
Ehm... no that shouldn't happen, the counter leeching gene is only there as a backup for when the bot isn't the one who formed the tie...
When the bot forms a tie it will use the attacks stored in the birth gene.
Here are the attacks used in spinner 1.5 :
[div class=\'codetop\']CODE[div class=\'codemain\' style=\'height:200px;white-space:pre;overflow:auto\']'-------Tie actions (5)
.eye5dir .startloc store
682 .startloc 1 add store
.vloc .startloc 2 add store
174 .startloc 3 add store
'.memloc .startloc 4 add store '-- Funny, but no point in both stealing keys and breaking conspecs
'173 .startloc 5 add store
.mrepro .startloc 4 add store '-- Also funny, but can mess up the stolen eye and shoot conspecs
65 .startloc 5 add store
.shootval .startloc 6 add store
32000 .startloc 7 add store
.strbody .startloc 8 add store
31999 .startloc 9 add store
'--------
It's executed here :
[div class=\'codetop\']CODE[div class=\'codemain\' style=\'height:200px;white-space:pre;overflow:auto\']*.state .torpedo =
*.toponent .enemy =
*.numties 0 >
*.robage 1 >
start
*.tiepres .tienum store
.locs 1 sub rnd 2 mult .startloc add dup * .tieloc store
1 add * .tieval store
And the bot only uses ties when in the "torpedo" state...
So you should only see the bot drain other bots if it's a tie feeder trying to eat it.
However you will see the torpedoes tie to bots and see them die, but it's not eating their energy, it's making them spend it in other ways.
-
And the bot only uses ties when in the "torpedo" state...
So you should only see the bot drain other bots if it's a tie feeder trying to eat it.
However you will see the torpedoes tie to bots and see them die, but it's not eating their energy, it's making them spend it in other ways.
I didn't even knew a F2-bot may send commands to the other bot to spend nrg or do you meant another way?
I did never seen it used in F2.
Strange, I saw it connecting to a bot that isn't forming ties. I isolated it, the 'torpedo' and the tied bot. And I saw torpedo getting nrg and the other bot losing nrg.
If I redo the sim, then I can't see torpedo gained nrg every time I saw it connected, but I do see it in some cases gaining nrg. Atleast I am sure that in those cases the specific 'leaching' gene was activated. I did check that earlier.
Are the sysvars the leach-gene writes too, always overwriten. Or are there specific cases when not. Just thinking at a bot that doesn't make any ties itself.
I bet that bot would win F2 again without that leaching gene. So much harm can't be done then.
-
Are you sure it isn't from eating it's body or something... the only thing in there that could cause leeching is the counter leech gene, so it shouldn't be able to leech from anything other than tie feeders...
I don't see what else could be causing it... there's nothing in there to leech while in torpedo state... Maybe if the bot feeds friends and has been fooled by the conspec thing....
My guess would be the energy comes from eating it's own body or something, check to see if it's losing body size while gaining energy... or maybe a multibot trying to share nrg, I noticed the early versions of seasnake fell for the fake conspec and tried to form a snake with spinner and sharing energy with them...
Either way feel free to replace the 31000 with 0... I also wrote that as comment right above the gene in case anyone had objections to using counter leeching in F2...
But don't remove the entire gene, there's a line with a ' in it, use that line instead of the one with 31000...
And the results should be the same, since the counter leeching gene only affects tie feeders... there's nothing in the code that would cause the oponent to push -1 or -6 into tieloc, so only a tie feeder would be affected by the gene.
All I can say is that if a non tie feeder is ending up giving energy to spinner then I had nothing to do with it
But as mentioned, feel free to swap the tieval line the only difference should be a few fights in F1 that last a litle longer.
-
I'll run it again without the leaching. It didn't take long to reach 1st place, so it won't waste too much time running it again. Luckily since it blasted right up to 1st place it hasn't invalidated any of the other results
-
Fruit Flies and Spinner 1.5 are currently fighting it out for 18th and 19th place; if fruit flies wins, it might get even further, but not much is happening at the moment.
-
Hmm, I happen to be wrong.
If it tie-feeds atleast it doesn't do this reguarly.
I have seen it not tiefeeding when it had the possibility more often then when it really was doing it, if it was? Not tie-feeding every time would be strange, so probably it wasn't tie-feeding.
Nice bot anyway, his power is of course the conspec-fooling, but further it also uses the classic venom and even .mrepro...
-
Fruit flies should beat spinner without any trouble.... but it might take a while... spinner doesn't attack bots if they're too small and I think it might be fooling the conspec...
Either way some fights will take ages with fruit flies, it doesn't have a strong weapon to kill off most bots, it mostly just crowds up the place till they starve to death...
If it's having trouble with an oponent you can try setting the pop cap lower so the sim will run faster... just don't go too low, the whole strength of fruit flies is the fast reproduction.
But fruit flies should win all of it's batles evetualy...
Also wanted to mention that another strength in spinner is the eyes, it's realy fast at spotting enemies or alge, it also moves fast and precicely to it's target and boost shots according to need.
It also uses venom on alge and makes them turn to face it to recieve energy shots while feeding And the reproduction while feeding also helps it seems... but spinner isn't great for F1 though... would have thought it could have made it further than 19th place though.... but haven't tested most of the new bots for the last few months...
-
WHy do we not see any of these bots do well in internet mode? Is it because no-one introduces them or it is because they can't compete effectivly in that environment?
-
WHy do we not see any of these bots do well in internet mode? Is it because no-one introduces them or it is because they can't compete effectivly in that environment?
IMO fruitflies in IM, NO. It would couse a major slowdown. Spinner could be interesting.
In my case, I tend not be able to connect well to IM. For example I introduced republican bee, excelibur and my own animal multi and multiply. For some strange reason I always get some mutated multiply back that kills the others. And very rare a seasnake.
-
I saw you connected to IM, got some bots from you, seemed to work just fine from this end.
You may have old bots from long ago in your local transfer directory. May be where the multiply's come from. You can delete them if you want to get rid of them.
No bot can slow down IM. Transfer rates are throttled and each sim follows its own parameters to control population...
-
I saw you connected to IM, got some bots from you, seemed to work just fine from this end.
You may have old bots from long ago in your local transfer directory. May be where the multiply's come from. You can delete them if you want to get rid of them.
No bot can slow down IM. Transfer rates are throttled and each sim follows its own parameters to control population...
Not sure what your parameters are, else then a hardcoded limit I can't see one. Try the bot if you wonder how.
Yes, I just connected. Just to check connection. Filed fairly soon an bug too.
I'll be fairly soon away too. Maybe later I setup a computer that continue with IM.
-
I'm working on a fruitfly for IM atm, but I'm still waiting for a working version of the new seasnake to come in (The only ones I've seen are badly mutated).
It'll be a while before I have something ready for IM, trying to figure out how to make a good multibot....
-
I have been unsuccessful in hand-authoring a version of Seasnake that can long survive against the mutated version, now at 3000+ mutations. Think of that. Over 3000 mutations. Fricking amazing. Whether hand-authored bots can do well against such beasts is the root of curiosity.
-
OK, new standings after friut flies:
1-Etch MK II
2-Occura Amplificis
3-TieFighters
4-Pacifist
5-Fruit Flies
6-Locust
7-Ebola
8-Multiply4
9-Excalibur
10-Cadillus
11-Blue on Blue
12-Bubbles
13-Reaper
14-Detonator v1.2
15-Martian Tank 3
16-Singula Haloculus v2.1
17-The One
18-Republican Wasp
19-Spinner v1.5
20-Virulens Locatus
-
Spinner remains on top of the F2 league, even without leaching. No surprises there
-
Fruit flies lost to pacifist ? I gotta admit I only had the patience to finish one fight when I was testing after that I used the auto win button when things where headed the same way.
I'm running the fight again... but so far Fruitflies has won 2 out of 2 fights... I'm running version L though.... but so far even when pacifist manages to infect the alge it still ends up loosing...
Also seems I should have a look at republican wasp... seems like spinner should be able to beat it... I'm probably paying for not putting a propper viral defence gene in spinner
But I don't want to leave it at the bottom, I remember it was a pain to beat martian tank 3 with my first F1 bot because it was stuck at the bottom for having poor viral defence but it was nr 3 in F2 and was still pretty hard to beat... just feels wrong that people need to beat spinner to get in top 20 for F1....
Either way right now I'm working on an IM fruit fly multi bot something... not realy sure where I'm going with it, but I have some ideas...
I may also make a v0.2 for fruitflies, found a clever way to let it addapt quickly to it's oponent through natural selection (Since reproduction is so fast).
It was a litle risky against Etch II though, kept falling behind at first, looked like it was going to loose some times... but if I perfect the method I'll post a v0.2 wich should clear the feald a lot faster without increasing the compexity of the bot. (I want to keep it simple, big fan of Occura).
Anyway fruitflie just won the 3rd fight against pacifist while I was typing, so I'll focus on the IM version for now... I'll let the fight keep running to make sure, but it looks like fruitflies is using something that doesn't work in the DB version you're running the leagues in or something like that (Which version are you using? then I can check)... I think I also tested against Occura, but not sure it was the latest version, and haven't checked if it beats tie fighters, but I think it should be able to...
-
I have been unsuccessful in hand-authoring a version of Seasnake that can long survive against the mutated version, now at 3000+ mutations. Think of that. Over 3000 mutations. Fricking amazing. Whether hand-authored bots can do well against such beasts is the root of curiosity.
Well, I had some seasnakes teleporting into the sim. In that current sim they didn't stand a chance. A combination of republican bee, excelibur and spinner is pretty hostile .
But after a while the population-number of my bots exploded. Going towards >6000. And then suddenly every single bot died, I gues I had cost-pop-control. Then I saw seasnake coming in and slowly take over the sim. Just very slowly, a little to slow for my opinion in a sim filled with defendless veggies. Many handoutered bots would do much better. I gues the power of these bots is, stick together.
Hmm, don't be afraid it can't be beaten. If needed I make one that defeats it.
Beating spinner to get to the best 20# in F1, that could be hard.
Hmm, just make enough bots to knock spinner out of the league then we haven't got this problem.
-
Hmm, just make enough bots to knock spinner out of the league then we haven't got this problem.
Oh no you don't! I'll get to work on Spinner right away... get some viral defences in there or whatever it needs to get a litle further in F1.
I also posted a v0.2 for Fruit flies... it's now in one gene and it's shorter, simpler and better than v0.1
I'll also be using it as a virus in an IM bot once I get around to making it...
And it adapt to it's oponent through natural selection which I think is pretty cool for a league bot
And it should beat F1... atleast in DB 2.43.1L... I haven't checked in any other version...
I only tested this version against Etch II, Pacifist and Multiply... and it beats all of them 5-0...
Not sure what will hapen if it's run in older versions... and I just noticed 2.44 is out, so I'll have to run the fights again I guess
-
Just running BOTbot, then all that's left is to run Spinner 1.51 (Just in case it doesn't make 1st place, have to be sure...) and then the Lovebot. I'm hoping Lovebot won't take long to run, but I have a bad gut feeling about it...
I'll post up the league standings just before I run Lovebot...
And after that I can improve Republican Wasp
-
The new bots have been assimilated(except for Lovebot...):
#F2
1 - Spinner_v1.51(F2)(Moonfisher)26-09-08
2 - ThisnThat1.01(F2)(Peksa)12.05.08
3 - Multiply4(F1)(F2)(Peter)19-12-07
4 - Excalibur 1.12 (F2)(Light)-06.03.07
5 - Martian Tank 3 (F2)(Martian)-06.07.2007
6 - Excalibur (F2)(Light)-26.02.05
7 - Republican Bee (F2)(Commander Keen)
8 - Bubbles (F2)(Jez)-21.08.06
9 - Blue on blue (F2)(Jez)-05.08.06
10- Martian Tank 2 (F2)(Martian)-04.07.2007
11- Markus Volithistralis2 (F2)(Ark)-08.02.06
12- Hunter V2.3 (F2)(PY)-26.04.05
13- Ymir (F2)(Numsgil)-21.02.05
14- Ratticus Rex (F2)(Jez)-27.02.07
15- SWARM 2.0 (F2)(Elite)-10.03.07
16- Zebedee V2.1 (F2)(Jez)-26.07.06
17- Icarus (F2)(Light)-26.11.04
18- Spiral (IB)(F2)(abyaly)-16.06.07
19- Tortuca Mechanica (F2)(Eight)-18.09.04
20- Purple Swarmer (F2)(PY)-23.02.05
21- One Man Bucket (SS)(F2)(abyaly)-03.04.07
22- Seasnake_1.0
23- Brevis (SS) (F2) (Moonfisher) 22-03-08
24- Fishy (IB)(MacadamiaNuts)-11.06.07
25- OculusInfinitusv1.1(F2)(CommanderKeen)
26- Vermis Bicerebrus
27- Massed Hunter(F2)(rayz)
28- Daedelus (F2)(Light)-29.07.04
29- BOTbot(Bacillus)
30- Purple Flamma (F2)(PY(Mod))-04.01.05
A lot of new bots are on the board, and a great many have fallen off. One Man Bucket seems to be stopping a great number of bots from going up the league...
Also of note, Zebedee went up 11 places, and Excalibur remains highly competitive, although several bots have managed to beat it.
Overall, I think it will be a lot harder for bots to get into the F2 league now. The standard of bots has defintely gone up
-
Also while I'm typing anyway... does anyone else have problems with DB 2.44 ? Was going to sugest we run all the leagues in 2.44 from now on, but I can't actualy run a league in DB 2.44 so...
I also get strange bugs, when adding a bot to the list of bots, sometimes it's like I'm not sure which bots are which, I add a bot and the other bots switch around colors and setting , if I run a league it ends after one fight claiming there are no more bots... I don't have a specific bug report or anything, just getting some wierdness....
Yeah, the species list is sorted now but this breaks the league code. I'm working on it.
-
Thanks to Commander Keen's competence, I have figured out how to run leagues automatically . This will make integrating the F2 league easy. (Already ran 7, plus the 7 that were already entered)