Topics

16

Bug reports / error.sim

« on: November 22, 2005, 01:37:01 PM »

Nums ...
I find this in 2.4.A ... form1:

Code: [Select]

Private Sub main()
  Dim clocks As Long
  clocks = GetTickCount
  Do
    If Active Then
      
      If MDIForm1.ignoreerror = True Then
        On Error Resume Next
      Else
        'On Error GoTo SaveError
      End If
is this what we have to comment in/out to enable/disable Save error.sim?
'On error GoTo SaveError?

is the compiled version commented out?
I ded not get a save error.sim  when I got an overflow error 6.
yes! I did finally get one ... methinks it's due to massive reproduction of Nim but ...
will have to get it to come up in the VB version to debug ...
and therefore the reason I want to make sure it does go to debug ...
and not get shunted to save error.sim
and of course want to have the error.sim enabled in the compiled version ...
so I can reload it in the VB version to see if I can repeat/debug.

tanks

17

Suggestions / a Controlled experiment

« on: November 13, 2005, 10:38:53 AM »

to whom it may concern:

just a few ideas on evolving an Evo/ALife sim.
TWYWALTR

first and foremost:

1.)
a stable and consistent version ...
one in which the environment can be flawlessly reproduced ...
and therefore function as an experimental lab in which to develop and study
various 'life forms' and their relationships to one another as well as to the
environment they are also part of.
iow ...
a sim that will accurately load in pre-saved settings, ALL of them ...
including the random seed ...
so the user can set up and realize a 'repeatable' experiment.
that's first ...
the essential starting point of any 'scientific' experiment is ...
total control of the 'system as defined' ... no surprises ...
just as one would have complete control over any/all aspects of any
'thermodynamic'  system under study ...
where one can define all inputs/outputs within the borders/limits of
the system under consideration ...
and then know that what takes place 'inside' the system as defined ...
is not influenced from 'outside'.
ie ... a for real controlled scientific laboratory experiment.
repeatable.

2.)
basic classes of bots.
once the 'environment' is defined ...
to then let introduce classes of bots.

2a.)
an alga/veggie class.
these do not directly interact ...
except to compete by their ability to feed and reproduce more efficiently
then their competition.
they are intermediaries ...
taking the energy provided to the system and distributing it to the formation
of other bots, thru reproduction and being consumed themselves.
just spreadin' it around.
ideally, the environment would provide many 'niches' which would allow
for more than one species of agla to survive ...
ie ... a pond mode that might provide more solar energy at the top of the pond
than the bottom ... having gravity also contribute to a diversity of environment ...
as could an idea for salinity, or currents, or rainfall, or altitude ...
it doesn't matter what we envision these influences to be ...
or what we might name/lable them ...
only that there is a 'variety' of environments which will support a 'variety' of
veggies. diversity, diversity, diversity ...
a large gene pool being preferable to a small one.
everything else builds upon this.

2b.)
a class of basic veggie eaters ...
vegetarians ...
which again ... do not compete directly with one another ...
except thru their ability to more efficiently gather food from the veggie class.
again ... if we have a diversity of alga/veggies ...
we will also have a diversity of these basic alga feeders.
remember ... we are still looking to promote diversity thru specialization.

2c.)
a class of basic predators ...
these feeding on the veggie eaters ...
but still not directly competing with one another ...
except thru their ability to more efficiently prey upon the veggie eaters.
again ... we are looking for a stable and diverse population of veggies,
veggie eaters, and these basic predators.

2d.)
now ... and only now ...
do we begin to introduce predators that directly compete with one another ...
mano el mano, if you will, in addition of course to still being efficient at preying
on the 'lesser' pr editors.

note ...
any of these classes may be endowed with, or develop de fences themselves ...
against any other class ... some plants are not all that tasty, or can even kill.
they too have their place in population control.
but those traits, or abilities to develop them, can always be introduced in a new class ...
... ideally, we want to provide them with the ability ... to 'allow' them to developed
such traits without imposing it upon them.
this is the trick, eh? ;)

a system such as this should allow/promote a hierarchy to develop ...
wherein there are many classes of species able to survive in an interrelated and
interconnected way ... in a 'system' ...
rather than having one bot take over everything ...
which is much more how it seems to go as is.

we still have control over the environment we present them with ...
our 'fishbowl', where we can then experiment with various settings ...
actually allowing the bots to help us evolve the conditions which make for
an interesting evo/alife sim ...
as we too, are part of the evolution ... not totally removed from it ...
not merely observers. whatever we do/don't do ... has an effect.
but we can limit our ID function to providing the 'space' ...
the 'context' in which the bots will be what provides the content.
 
some of these ideas may already be part of DB ...
in place ... or perhaps planned ...
but imo, we need them to all be there.

and first and foremost ...
once again ...
please, please, please ...
let up put a stable and repeatable version in place ...
so we can Begin to play.

just what it looks like from here.

18

Bug reports / 2.37.5 veggie controls

« on: November 11, 2005, 09:18:25 PM »

uninstalled. reinstalled 2.11 ...
moved everything to the C: drive where it wants to go.
made sure I had a basic default.set there ...
and got 2.37.5 to run. yea!!!!

wish I could report no problems. ;)
I can get sims running for long periods now at least ....
so can now actually look for bugs other than runtime errors.
here's a couple ...
well, one ... and then another addistioni'd love to see.
I know it can be done as Nums did it in 2.4x?

2.37.5
On occasion ...
 Max # of veggies actually limits population to what the setting is.
but usually it does not.  I played with these settings all day ...
and here is an example of what I found.
with Max number set to 40, and threshold at 35, repop event at 1 ...
one would expect the pop to vary prettly closely around 40.
not so.  try 75. I paused and then killed off some viggies to just above 40 ...
and when it dropped to that, the pop jumps up to 75 again ...
regardless of what I have the population event set to ...
it is as if the thresthold number, 35 is added to the max no, 40.
now I altered these settings to other numbers and found the same thing ...
set at 20 and 15 ... the pop would come down to 20 and they jump to 35.
now this is not consistant!  on occasion, it would control as it should ...
but not often. rare enough so that when it did I was surprised. ;)

now I can work around this by setting them to about half of what I want ...
but I shouldn't have to do this .... those settings should work as they say.

but what I can't work around ...
is the  veggies not repopulating in the start position window I set up
at the start of the sim ... in species selection.
this is essential for the sims I am experiementing with ...
having areas of isolated food supply ... and evolving bots that can find
and/or reach them.
my sims go along well until suddenly veggies are randomly appearing
everywhere and my, up until then, isolated sim populations have food
delivered to them. not what I want to have happen.

also ... the veggies do 'clump' ... but I need to have them fixed to stay
in the postion box I choose ... as gravity is part of these sims as well.

I know Nums did a fix in 2.4 for keeping the repopulation in the set window.
is it possible to use that in 2.37.5?
or can someone point me to it ...
and also the veggie population control settings ...
so I can at least take a look and see if I can finger out what goes wrong?

a form or routine or the variables ... so I can search them out.

also ...
I asked before but Nums, as usual ;) ...
forget to answer the question and got off on some other tangent ...
like he didn't program charts.
that's fine ... but that wasn't what I asked.
so here it is again ...
a simple question:
where is the form/routne where the graphs live?
what are the variables they use for selecting the chart colors of the bots?
I know they are just generic 1-8 and don't correspond to bot colors.
so ... what is the variable name of the color the species of bot uses ...
at the beginning of the sim ... that's the color I want to grab, not just
from the order of bots ... which changes somehow as species die off.
all I need is a pointer to some of these and I'll go play around.

tanks

19

Suggestions / how about some demo settings?

« on: November 10, 2005, 05:43:30 PM »

a suggestion.

how about including a start.settings file with a new version ...
one that will adjust the settings to those that are not skewed to one end
or the other of the spectrum ... settings that take a middle-of-the-road
approach if you will ... settings that give the new user unfamiliar with all
the controls a chance of starting a sim that is going to function with a
minimum of problems?

it's all well and good for those of you who program the physics and controls
and know what they do and how they affect the performance of bots to just
wing it ...
but that doesn't do much to help the new user coming into this cold ...
who hasn't had a chance to explore the controls, or have any idea yet of
how they work or affect the bots and the simulation.
what many of you take for granted ... or as obvious ...
may not appear to be that at all to someone unfamiliar with the program.

these settings could consist of a particular enviorinment and include a bot or
two to give a decent demo of how DB should function ...
nothing flash or fancy ...
just a little starter kit, if you will ...
that one would not have to tweak just to get working.

I can tell you from my own experience, and observing the problems that
other new users encounter even trying to get it to run out of the box ...
that DB is not at all user friendly ...
not to someone just coming in with no clue as to what NOT to have the
controls set to.
it is indeed a complicated sim with many controls ...
and that's good ... IF one knows what they do and how they function.
otherwise it's pretty overwelming ...
esp when the functions seem to change with every update. ;)

in fact, why not include a few demo sets ...
ones known to you to work? ...
to give the newbie a fighting chance without having to reinvent the
wheel just to get it to run.
once it works, then the user can begin to tweak some of the settings to
explore futher.
 
so I'm only asking those of you who are 'in the know' ...
to put yourself into the shoes of someone coming in cold ...
and take them into consideration ...
to make an effort to make things a little more user friendly.
if you want to bring more folks onboard ...
and support your cause ...
how about giving them a foot up getting started?

is this an unreasonable request?
I know I would have appreciated such a thing ...
still would in fact ... ;)
 
thanks

20

Off Topic / to Nums and PY

« on: November 08, 2005, 05:37:27 PM »

thanks for all the work you have done ...
and continue to do.

I'll get our of your way and let you be ...
go for it ...
do it like you know it.

there's enough stuff here for me to sort out/thru ...
to keep me busy thinking about where I'd like it to go ...
and inspire me to get back into VB so I can do that ...
and who knowz ... even C++.
so thanks for the inspiration.
I'll just twiwaltr ...
and give you guys some feedback if/when I find bugs/errors ...
if I think they will be of use.
otherwise ...
I'll let you get on with your own vision of what it should be.
in any case ...
good luck with it.

21

Bugs and fixes / empirical data

« on: November 07, 2005, 07:31:19 PM »

empirical data ...
seeing as not one of these versions so far even works ...
this is my contribution to DB:
to experiment and pass on what screws up.
I will try to only alter one variable at a time ...
to assist you in troubleshooting.
use it to sus out the problems ...
or not.
whatever.

there's a lot more where this comes from, believe me.
 

2.4.8
F1 conditions
challenge match
T_Preservans vs 2.4T_Preservans [use NewMove added to bot code]

in match 1 ... 2.4 is double population of original bot.
I click on the InstaWin ...
I mean ... let's move on.

Run-time error '91'
Object variable or With block variable not set.
no error.sim written.
no debug ... running compiled version.

22

Off Topic / Pruned Topic

« on: November 05, 2005, 11:03:57 AM »

Yeah, bots can still venture out of bounds, but it takes a tremendous amount of nrg to stay out of bounds.

hehehe ...
rereading this just now ...
it occurs to me that Bots himself ...
often does the same!  :D lol

23

Darwinbots Program Source Code / Hey Bots

« on: November 01, 2005, 09:44:21 PM »

Thread moved since it really wasn't anything to do with Bot Tavern topics

just started this page on the wiki
http://www.darwinbots.com/WikiManual/index...reus%27s_Vision
a place to take a look at the changes you have made to 2.37.4 ...
and sus them out.
here's an opportunity to put your stuff out here where we can all
take a look and give you feedback ...
all work together to see what we can do to make DB work ...
as a 'team effort'.
for you and anyone who is interested in such things.
and if not ...
well ...
that's ok too.
all I can do is offer the opportunity.
here it is ...
let's use it ...
or lose it.

if you are up to it ...
then let me know which moduals and routines that you altered ...
that you would like to have people take a look at ...
and I will work at putting them on this wiki page.

ok?

this could be the start of a good thing.
no excuses now ...
let's take a for real look at what you've been doing ...
and see if we can make it work for everyone.

what say ye?

24

Bot Tavern / BotGallery

« on: November 01, 2005, 06:46:52 PM »

Holy Public Subroutines, Botman !!! ...
my Alcheminima_U2Ag bot has evolved into something shiney!!!

25

Bot Tavern / 2.47

« on: November 01, 2005, 12:08:46 AM »

2.4.7 is on the FTP.

I've addressed all the issues Griz pointed out...

Some new buttons in the toolbar (no piccys cause I'm lazy.) One limits the speed to about 15 or 20 cycles/second. The other attempts to ignore errors. (Please only use this if you want to run a long term sim. I need to catch bugs in shorter sims).

Robot placement dropdown hand-of-god tool thing works now. (Man am I tired).

And a minor bug that crashed the sim has been fixed biggrin.gif

good on yah, Nums. ;)
try to get some needed beauty sleep now, eh? :D

just in time too ...
I gots to split for a week or two ...
so will download and take it with me.


you girlz all play nice now, here? ;)

26

Bugs and fixes / 2.46

« on: October 30, 2005, 09:18:20 AM »

that's right ... I'm weak!
having given up on 2.37.4 ...
I couldn't help but wonder if 2.46 might actually work.
so ...
weakened by HOPE ...
instead of paying attention to reality ...
I tried it out.

2.46 bugs
veggies do not repopulate.
number of veggies displayed at bottom of screen = whatever number is in the
"Veggies per repopulation event" box in Population Control.
I have Max Veggies set to 50 ...
Repop Threshold at 20 ...
Veggies per repopulation event = 10
Repop cooldown =1
the animals eat all the veggies ... and there is no repopulation ...
Total Vegs indicated at bottom of screen ... never changes from 10.

btw ... where has the 'bouancy' control gone?
gravity is way too high ... even after unchecking "Earth" gravity ...
and changing Y-axis gravity to 0.5.
also ... swimming factor defaults to zero.
also ... velocity is WAY too fast ...
bots are blurs on the screen.
I like the new physics but ...
need some control over the forces.

also ...
how might we modify some of the older bots to work in 2.4x?
how about some new basic bots to start with?
I'm adding new species as I go ...
so far ... they got nuts or just sit there.

27

Suggestions / suggestion: use the wiki

« on: October 27, 2005, 09:08:46 PM »

http://www.darwinbots.com/WikiManual/index...Table#DeBugging

we can set this up any way we want ...
and centralize the bug reporting and fixes.
this is pure chaos here at the forum.

28

Bugs and fixes / can't reply to messages Nums

« on: October 27, 2005, 08:53:16 PM »

Moved this thread out of bug reports since the problem has already been logged and is awaiting being fixed

for whatever reason, I can't reply to the thread I began about the runtime error.
so ...
here it is under this topic.

 

I've posted changes in your post in red.

sorry ... already tried placing it there ...
I get the compile error ...
and whatever else it was I said in that post/thread that I can't reply too ...
[boy ... this is a pain in the ass!!! ... this centralization for bug reporting thing ain't workin' boyz!]

it doesn't NOT like ".MaxVel" for whatever reason.

29

Solved Bugs / runtime 6/compile error

« on: October 27, 2005, 08:12:04 PM »

ok.
attn Nums!!!!!!!!!

I reported this before.

I keep getting this same runtime error 6 overflow.
in the Senses modual ... lookoccurr routine.
rob(o).vx is out of range.

now ...
you said the following would fix this ...
but you didn't specify if all of this had to be changed or where to insert it.

~~~
if abs(rob(o).vx) > rob(o).MaxVel then rob(o).vx = sgn(rob(o).vx) * rob(o).MaxVel
if abs(rob(o).vy) > rob(o).MaxVel then rob(o).vy = sgn(rob(o).vy) * rob(o).MaxVel

rob(n).mem(refvelup) = (rob(o).vx * Cos(rob(n).aim) + rob(o).vy * Sin(rob(n).aim) * -1) - rob(n).mem(velup)
rob(n).mem(refveldn) = rob(n).mem(refvelup) * -1
rob(n).mem(refveldx) = (rob(o).vy * Cos(rob(n).aim) + rob(o).vx * Sin(rob(n).aim)) - rob(n).mem(veldx)
rob(n).mem(refvelsx) = rob(n).mem(refvelsx) * -1
~~~

please, please, please, please ...
would you tell me exactly where in the following rountine this code goes ...
because if I put this at the top of the routine ...
I get a compile error ...
"method or data member not found."
and this highlighted:
Public Sub lookoccurr(n As Integer, o As Integer)

you guys want us to be specific when reporting the bugs ....
would you please be as specific with the fixes? ;)

and/or ...
might someone who now has a stable 2.37.4 upload it as 2.37.4b or something.
I sure would like to be running it as well.

thank you
~griz~


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
' copies the occurr array of a viewed robot
' in the ref* vars of the viewing one
Public Sub lookoccurr(n As Integer, o As Integer)
  If rob(n).Corpse Then Exit Sub
  Dim t As Byte
  'If rob(n).lastviewed <> rob(o).AbsNum Then
    For t = 1 To 8
      rob(n).mem(occurrstart + t) = rob(o).occurr(t)
    Next t
    rob(n).lastviewed = rob(o).AbsNum
  'End If
  If rob(o).nrg < 32001 Then
    rob(n).mem(occurrstart + 9) = rob(o).nrg
  Else
    rob(n).mem(occurrstart + 9) = 32000
  End If
  rob(n).mem(occurrstart + 10) = rob(o).age '.refage
  rob(n).mem(in1) = rob(o).mem(out1)
  rob(n).mem(in2) = rob(o).mem(out2)
  rob(n).mem(711) = rob(o).mem(18)      'refaim
  rob(n).mem(712) = rob(o).occurr(9)    'reftie
  rob(n).mem(refshell) = rob(o).Shell
  rob(n).mem(refbody) = rob(o).body
  rob(n).mem(refypos) = rob(o).mem(217)
  rob(n).mem(refxpos) = rob(o).mem(219)

if abs(rob(o).vx) > rob(o).MaxVel then rob(o).vx = sgn(rob(o).vx) * rob(o).MaxVel
if abs(rob(o).vy) > rob(o).MaxVel then rob(o).vy = sgn(rob(o).vy) * rob(o).MaxVel


  'give reference variables from the bots frame of reference
  rob(n).mem(refvelup) = (rob(o).vx * Cos(rob(n).aim) + rob(o).vy * Sin(rob(n).aim) * -1) - rob(n).mem(velup)
  rob(n).mem(refveldn) = rob(n).mem(refvelup) * -1
  rob(n).mem(refveldx) = (rob(o).vy * Cos(rob(n).aim) + rob(o).vx * Sin(rob(n).aim)) - rob(n).mem(veldx)
  rob(n).mem(refvelsx) = rob(n).mem(refvelsx) * -1
  rob(n).mem(refvelscalar) = CInt((CLng(rob(n).mem(refvelup)) ^ 2 + CLng(rob(n).mem(refveldx)) ^ 2) ^ 0.5)

'replaced following line. overflow
  'rob(n).mem(refvelscalar) = Sqr(rob(n).mem(refvelup) ^ 2 + rob(n).mem(refveldx) ^ 2) ' how fast is this robot

moving compared to me?
  rob(n).mem(713) = rob(o).mem(827)     'refpoison. current value of poison. not poison commands
  rob(n).mem(714) = rob(o).mem(825)     'refvenom (as with poison)
  rob(n).mem(715) = rob(o).kills        'refkills
   If rob(o).Multibot = True Then
    rob(n).mem(refmulti) = 1
  Else
    rob(n).mem(refmulti) = 0
  End If
  If rob(n).mem(474) > 0 And rob(n).mem(474) <= 1000 Then 'readmem and memloc couple used to read a

specified memory location of the target robot
    rob(n).mem(473) = rob(o).mem(rob(n).mem(474))
    'rob(n).mem(474) = 0
  End If
  If rob(o).Fixed Then                  'reffixed. Tells if a viewed robot is fixed by .fixpos.
    rob(n).mem(477) = 1
  Else
    rob(n).mem(477) = 0
  End If
  rob(n).mem(825) = rob(n).venom
  rob(n).mem(827) = rob(n).poison
   
End Sub

There, fix should be self evident (unless you're color blind ;))

30

Bugs and fixes / who gives a grap?

« on: October 27, 2005, 06:06:13 PM »

So here is the crash fix for those of out there who give a crap.

well duh! ...
so ...
are we going to actually put these fixes in the fixed bug file ...
in a central place where we can actually find them and where they
need to go?
or is someone going to upload a fixed/stable version of 2.37.4 at some point ..
so I can run it as well?
 

~griz~
 


CODE
If Abs(.mem(aimsx) > 1256) Then .mem(aimsx) = 1256 * Sgn(.mem(aimsx)) 'new crash fix?
  If Abs(.mem(aimdx) > 1256) Then .mem(aimdx) = 1256 * Sgn(.mem(aimdx))


becomes
CODE
If Abs(.mem(aimsx)) > 1256 Then .mem(aimsx) = 1256 * Sgn(.mem(aimsx)) 'new crash fix?
  If Abs(.mem(aimdx)) > 1256 Then .mem(aimdx) = 1256 * Sgn(.mem(aimdx))