Topics

61

Suggestions / My thoughts on metabolism

« on: February 27, 2006, 02:34:19 PM »

My thoughts on metabolism:

(1) DNA acess to metabolism:

I think that there should be two DNA files for each bot
 - behavioral DNA
 - mitochondrial/structural DNA

The behavioral DNA is what we've got already - controls behavior. It should have little or no control over the metabolism apart from:
 - metabolic rates
 - triggering the production of certain useful chemicals

Combat bots should all use a preset league-metabolism DNA file that alows them to make shell, slime etc. and maybe some other chemicals.

So you can design your own metabolism/structure if:
 - you really want to want to
 - you posess the ability to understand it

But the behavioral DNA (think of it as a nanobot's programming) and the mitochondrial/structural DNA (more like real DNA) are seperate. The mitochondrial/structural DNA will be complex, but you have the option of avoiding it and keeping all the metabolism 'under the hood' if you so desire.

(2) To emulate or not to emulate?

I don't think we should try to accurately model real biological processes too accurately - rather create some of our own unique processes

(3) The actual system

What Shvarz has got at the moment is great and I love Nums' enzyme system. Here's some thoughts of my own:

There should be a mitochondrial DNA that you can program that controls the metabolism

There should be enzymes that perform different tasks than just facilitating reactions

There should be:

 - Chemicals (just that)

ie. 10100101

 - Enzymes (facilitate reactions)

ie. 564A6D

Shell, slime etc. would be covered by chemicals under Shvarz' system, presumably using enzymes to produce them from raw chemicals. I agree with this 'chemical properties' approach

Maybe enzymes could interact with other enzymes, ie. increasing or decreasing their efficiency or shutting them off completely?

Question: Can we use enzymes to break down the cell walls of enemy bots?


Comments?

62

Suggestions / Some tie suggestions

« on: February 25, 2006, 09:44:25 AM »

I) Transfering DNA through ties
- Like using viruses except through ties
- Preferably using the tieports
- Something like .tiegene that you can put a gene number into. That gene will then be transfered either instantly or after a timer has expired (like with viruses)

ii) Greater expansion of the tieport concept
- I really like the tieports. I think that most, if not all of the tie commands should be 'tieported' ie .deltie1, .deltie2, .trefeye3 etc. It would allow for more complex MB behaviors and the ability to monitor several ties at once without the hassle of having to change .tienum and .readtie every time you want to use or reference a different tie.
- Rather than specify a tie ID in .tie you could scrap IDs altogether and put a positive number into .tie (.tiepres allows you to see the ID anyway)

iii) Aiming ties
- A new sysvar .tieaim to allow you to fire ties in different directions other than just straight forward

iv) Unifying the birth tie and regular ties
- The birth tie becomes a regular tie that a bot must either delete or stay connected to their offspring (this may be useful for MBs)

v) An in/out system through ties
- Each bot can store something in .tieout and each bot can read back these values using .tiein1, .tiein2, .tiein3, .tiein4 for each bot they are connected to.
- Note that there is only one .tieout sysvar, as things will quickly become complex for bots on the recieving end otherwise

vi) For bots to be able to set an elasticity value for ties
- Setting a high value would result in the bots getting pulled together

vii) Cell specialisation and structure
- A big one - probably very, very, very hard to implement, but goes well with the idea of proteins and metabolism
- Allow cells to specialize due to protein manufacture to perform different tasks ie solely for photosynthesis (palisade cell) or solely for communication (neurone) or solely for metabolism
- Allow cells to make 'proteins' which could encompass slime, shell, poison etc, maybe some new ones such as acid and chemicals that break down other cells' cell membranes, and some proteins alter the function of the cell, like the enzymes in metabolism
- Allow more 'cell structure' such as cell walls, nuclei etc.

viii) Feeding
- Rather than using shots secrete enzymes that break down the food and then absorb the energy
- More realistic than shots
- Again ties in with metabolism

My intent is to allow an easier creation of more complex multicellular organisms and allow them to develop more complex behaviors and structures

Some of these ideas come from this thread - I'm just reitterating them here because I agree that they should be implemented  :)

63

The Gene depository / Battery Gene MkII

« on: February 21, 2006, 05:42:35 AM »

A bot with this gene will grab any veg that comes in range and store it in a special 'battery sac'. The bot can collect up to four vegetables in this way.

The gene will then siphon off the vegetables' energy for your own use  :D

Code: [Select]

cond
start
*.tiepres .readtie *.numties sgn mult store
.tiepres .memloc *.robage -1 mult 1 add sgn mult store
.numties .tmemloc *.robage -1 mult 1 add sgn mult store
55 10 rnd add .tie *.refeye sgn -1 mult 1 add sgn mult *.eye5 45 sub sgn mult *.memval sgn -1 mult 1 add sgn mult *.robage sgn mult store
628 .fixang *.numties sgn mult store
200 .fixlen *.numties sgn mult store
*.tiepres .tienum *.numties sgn mult store
*.tiepres .readtie *.numties sgn mult store
.fixpos .tieloc *.numties sgn mult *.treffixed mult store
0 .tieval *.numties sgn mult *.treffixed mult store
80 .sharenrg *.multi mult store
*.tiepres .deltie *.tmemval 1 sub sgn mult store
*.tiepres .deltie *.myeye *.trefeye sub sgn abs -1 mult 1 add mult store
stop
The only problems you may have are:
- The bots may attack each other's vegs (and occasionally their own)
- This gene will interfere with tie-feeders
- This gene sets .memloc and .tmemloc and needs these values set to function

You can solve the first problem by having bots not attack if *.memval equals 55-65

64

Bot Tavern / MB Comet

« on: February 19, 2006, 01:51:49 PM »

:blink:

Uses .repro to move
Doesn't use any other movement commands except .dx to aim

Best on size 2

Make sure you give him more than 4000 energy at the start

65

DNA - General / Can you aim viruses?

« on: February 19, 2006, 07:02:04 AM »

Do .aimshoot and .backshot work for viruses? (.vshoot)

66

Bot Tavern / Rocket Worm

« on: February 17, 2006, 03:45:51 PM »

:blink:

Look at him go ...

Best in large fields  :)

67

Suggestions / DNA suggestions

« on: February 17, 2006, 12:37:32 PM »

Could we add some sort of conserved regions of DNA, which mutate slower than the rest of DNA? Could take the form of some sort of flow command. Or have commands that attach to each gene that specify the relative mutation rate of that gene. These could mutate.

Code: [Select]

mut 78
cond
start
stop
Something like that?

Also, maybe the mutation to shift genes around and change their order (minor suggestion)

68

Biology / Gene therapy

« on: February 17, 2006, 12:28:34 PM »

I have some questions regarding gene therapy (introduction of DNA into cells using virus vectors) for Shvarz:

1) Is it possible to replace ALL of the DNA in a cell with new DNA via the vector, ie. replace the cell's entire genome with a new one? (viruses do this don't they?)

2) Is it possible to radically alter the entire genome of a complete living thing? What would happen in an extreme case, say of replacing a mouse's DNA with that of a frog?

3) Would cells with new DNA and a new function or shape change to fit their new function, or would they stay specialized as they were before the DNA introduction?

4) How much DNA can one vector hold?

69

Evolution and Internet Sharing Sims / Mutation Rates

« on: February 15, 2006, 12:59:45 PM »

What are the best mutation rates to use for a mutation sim?

I find that the default settings are too low. After 120,000 cycles I ended up with two mutations:

Changed cond at pos 13 from  != to  !=
Changed val at pos 45 from 0 to 0

And I had increased the mutation factor by 2x!

 :(

I've had some sucess in the past from using 4-8x mutation rates.

What settings have you lot had sucess with?

70

Evolution and Internet Sharing Sims / Survival-of-the-fittest evobot

« on: February 14, 2006, 05:15:57 PM »

Had an idea for a new Evotbot.

The bot spends about 1000 cycles building up 20000 energy. It then fixes.
When it's fixed it spins and repros uncontrollably (and dies), producing many, many offspring.
All the offspring compete to the death and the fittest few survive. Lame bots do not survive.

I'm doing some fine tuning at the moment. Here's the prototype so far:

Code: [Select]

' Shoot
cond
*.eye5 0 !=
start
-6 .shoot store
stop

' Move
cond
*.eye5 0 !=
start
20 .up store
stop

' Spin
cond
*.eye5 0 =
start
314 rnd .aimdx store
stop

' Activate repro mode!
cond
*.nrg 20000 >
start
1 .fixpos store
stop

' Repro and spin ... get dizzy ...
cond
*.fixed 0 !=
start
314 rnd .aimdx store
10 .repro store
32000 .tielen1 store
stop

' Unfix if fixed and not at repro age
cond
*.fixed 0 !=
*.robage 1000 <
start
.fixpos dec
stop

end
Feel free to have a play around and see if you can get any good results  :D

71

Tips and Tricks / Tie Snapping

« on: February 14, 2006, 12:30:42 PM »

I just realized that you can use the anti-tie gene from Endy's alga:

Code: [Select]

32000 .tielen1 store
An a very effective anti-birthtie gene. What's more, it propells young away from their parents so:

• More ground is covered
• Allows sustainable canibiotism to thrive

I'm running it in an evo sim at the moment and it allows cannibot populations to thrive without much of the baby-eating that plagues other cannibots. And also makes them dependant on the gene so that it doesn't get deleted (or more accurately, when it does the bot dies).
Cannibiotism evolves because bots that become cannibiotistic have a great advantage (their conspecs don't fight back) but it is a poor long-term 'decision' for the species. This gene allows cannibiotism to be sustainable.

Just thought you might find it interesting.

72

DNA - General / Ties

« on: February 14, 2006, 11:41:06 AM »

I'm hoping to make a tie tutorial (ie. for multibots etc.) about what you can do with ties .tieang etc.

I have some questions:

• How so you specify which tie you want .tieang .tielen .fixlen and .fixang to affect?
• Is there any way of moving hard ties ie. using .fixang?
• Does .stifftie affect hard ties?

73

Newbie / New Bot Tutorial!

« on: February 12, 2006, 03:50:02 PM »

Check it out

Explains intermediate-level concepts to newbies.

Comments?

 :D

74

DNA - General / Limits and costs

« on: February 12, 2006, 01:42:21 PM »

Two questions:

Question number one:
Are .strvenom, .strpoison, .mkshell etc. all limited like .strbody and .fdbody are? Memory shooting 32000 into .strpoison or .strvenom etc could be a problem if they aren't.

Question number two:
How much do venom, poison, and shell cost in terms of nrg? It says that they cost 2 nrg per point in the help file but when tested it with a bot they costed 1 nrg per point.

75

Bot Tavern / Flying bot?

« on: February 11, 2006, 02:31:50 PM »

Is there any way of creating 'wings' using ties to make a flying bot in gravity sims.

I've seen bots in gravity sims form into huge tied masses which fall slower, but has any bot evolve or been created with the ability to fly.

What about something like this?

Code: [Select]

o     o      o -- o -- o            o         o-o-o     o     o
  \   /                            /   \                  \   /
    o                            o       o                  o

When a new 'flyer' bot is born it moves away from it's parent, repros, ties turns 180 degrees, repros and ties again. Then the middle bot then uses .tieang to 'flap', and .tielen to extend or retract, the wings.

Is it possible?

Questions:
If you have more than one tie, can you set the tie ID first and then .tieang or .setang or does .tieang and .setang affect all ties? What does .tienum control?