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I still cant see how

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Numsgil:
DB does have a very different style necessary for evolving bots, but I think it's more in range with how reality is.

Since the bots are actually moving about and feeding, etc., they tend to be really similar to real organisms in how they evolve.  This means it takes time, and in my experience, people are impatient.

And the sim is alot slower compared to others.  But if you have the time to run it for a while...

I've run some very successful mutation sims myself, as have many other people.  Things like autonomous, replicating multibots don't develop, but I think that's more due to the limitations of the sim and less to any fundamental flaw (that is, they don't develop because the controls for such things are ackward, not because they have 1000 memory slots, etc.).  However, within the confines of the simulation, I have seen many interesting and often unanticipated developments.

I have seen bots (both animal and veggy) learn to reproduce more often if they are given food independant of their body size.  Cancerous veggies develop quite early on in many different simulations.  I've had DIN learn to shrink down to little more than 20 body.

I've seen bots learn to always fire.  By always firing forward, they seem to be more likely accidentally hit something else and have that food shot return to them.

Some other things too...

If you're having trouble running an evo sim, maybe it's you and not the program.  I feel that's what Bots' problem was.  He wanted to see DB as the kind of AL sim where things happen fast.  So he has mutation rates jacked way up.  Then he complains when his newer bots are less fit than his original bot.

Well, if he can rig up a system that makes him happy, more power to him.  But it's going to be jsut that: a rig up.  An artifical set of criteria imposed on the bots from above, instead of their own ability to survive shining through.

If he had just run a steady simulation in the 6 months or so he's been trying to evolve his bot, I bet he'd have something really cool to show off.

His changes to the program seem to push more towards genetic algorithms, which artificially reward organisms if they meet some predetermined idea of what is 'good'.  That's just not how DB is built to run.

Testlund:
What you're explaining here is something I whould really like to see for myself. But I don't understand how you can, as the program doesn't work properly. I've been thinking that if you sometime managed to make this program work flawlessly I whould like to get another computer just for this program so I could keep running it while doing other things on this computer. Evolution is a slow process, I agree with that, and the more you can make this program work natural the more interesting it whould be. I'm so jelous that you manage to run simulations for days with no problems! I just don't get it. It feels like this program is not meant for ordinary users who just want to see bots evolve. It's more like a program for programmers who likes to solve problems. I thought we were getting close to fixing version 2.37.4, but that seems to have died out. Now there are several problems with 2.4.9, wich I have posted a topic about in 'Suggestions' section. If you could FIX those things then we whould FINELY have a program that WORKS! Because there doesn't seem to be an alternative on the internet to download I'm stucked with waiting for you to fix this one, but if it is like you say, Nums; the program works on your computer when it isn't working on mine, what the hell can we do about it. Maybe it's a curse. Maybe God doesn't want us to mess with the concept of life. Maybe we will NEVER see a program that can give us understanding how life really evolves.

Numsgil:
Again, just be aware that because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work.  Making broad generalizations like that becomes combative after a while, and everyone gets ticked, and nothing good comes of it.

PurpleYouko:

--- Quote ---I thought we were getting close to fixing version 2.37.4, but that seems to have died out.
--- End quote ---
I don't know why you think this. :blink:
Maybe the helpful insights from others have died out, but I have been running the source code non-stop for over 2 weeks now. It has crashed from time to time, sometimes because I caused it to deliberately to track down a bug.

Each time I have fixed the bug and posted the fix along with an explanation.

I even posted my entire (stable on all 3 of my machines) source code and executable.

If it is still crashing then please continue to tell me where and how, so that I can fix it.

I am only one man and only have so many hours in a day. If I can't see where it is broken then I can't fix it.

Up till now I have been concentrating on making the mechanics of the actual sim as robust as possible. I have NOT attempted to save or load any sims, settings or anything along those lines. I have just run the program with most of the bots under every combination of settings that I can think of. Obviously there are more combinations than I could possibly test alone so I am relying on you lot to break it and then tell me EXACTLY where, how and when. Including all variables involved and your personal settings.

Please continue to help me get this thing totally stable. I for one have not given up on it.

Ulciscor:
I have the source code [PY] uploaded running from VB as I type; it has been running for 9 hours so far without a single error or problem that I can see.

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